From hart at pglaf.org Tue Nov 1 07:54:13 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Nov 1 07:54:14 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] pg 2(thousand) In-Reply-To: <221.157e3af.30950ff0@aol.com> References: <221.157e3af.30950ff0@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > project gutenberg two (thousand), > a.k.a. 21st century project gutenberg > -- with arms in various countries -- > has indeed become "the world's library". > > of course, with the o.c.a. active now, > there's a better-funded "competitor", > but i do believe that michael hart will > welcome e-books from every origin... > > -bowerbird > We have already downloaded and released eBooks from some of the Alliance members, and some of the Google books are in progress. mh From hart at pglaf.org Tue Nov 1 08:09:20 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Nov 1 08:09:21 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: US Copyright Law again. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, Dave Fawthrop wrote: > On , in you wrote: > > | On 10/30/05, Dave Doty wrote: > | > > | > > | > > | > US law is not a world standard from which other countries choose to > | > deviate. > | > | > | Although it seems to be fast becoming that way. With the increase in > | globalisation, things like copyright law are becoming more standard and in > | the respect unfortunately US law *is* becoming the standard. > > AFAIK no country is following the US 1923 abberation in US Law. The US was once a pioneer in copyright law, using a simple and effective version of the original 1709-10 Statute of Anne when the US was founded, and resisting most of the changes to that 14 + 14 year standard when the Berne convention made it impossible to tell when a copyright would expire until the author had expired. However, due to various pressures from what we now know as the WIPO cartel of publishing interests, the US [and many other nations] have changed their copyright laws to give more and more benefits to the publishers, and less and less to the public, under the pressures of economic warfare. Thus the original US copyright law *WAS* "the standard" mentioned above only from the founding of the US to ~1831, when 14 + 14 was repleaced by 28 + 14, a standard which I don't recall was ever adopted elsewhere. This "standard" was again replaced in 1909 with 28 + 28, and again in 1976 with 75 years [renewal not needed] and in 1998 with 95 years. None of these were "standard" anywhere but in the US, AFIK. Thus, we can't say the US set any copyright standard, though it did agree with one when it was founded. Under the latest US Supreme Court decision, you can be sure the US copyright will continue to be extended. mh From hart at pglaf.org Tue Nov 1 08:58:03 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Nov 1 08:58:04 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: US Copyright Law again. In-Reply-To: <17254.7687.706145.593512@celery.zuhause.org> References: <17254.7687.706145.593512@celery.zuhause.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, Bruce Albrecht wrote: > Dave Fawthrop writes: > > | Although it seems to be fast becoming that way. With the increase in > > | globalisation, things like copyright law are becoming more standard and in > > | the respect unfortunately US law *is* becoming the standard. > > > > AFAIK no country is following the US 1923 abberation in US Law. > > The US is a life+70 country, with most works grandfathered into the > terms of the previous copyright rules. Now that the US has fully > accepted the worst of the term limits now in place from the Berne > Convention (the BC only mandates life+50), it's now attempting to > mandate a life+70 term/95 years with a all of its North and Central > American Free Trade Agreement partners. This is all pretty much up in the air for now, and for a decade to come, so I doubt if the current proposed copyright terms will actually go into effect for very long, if at all. My own guess is that they will continue to extend, as per the recent SCOTUS case Eldred v Ashcroft, and so it won't make any difference, as there is no legal reason to presume the copyright on Steamboat Willie or Winnie the Pooh will ever be allowed to expire. However, if we get just one more year, we can do Gibran's The Prophet. Michael S. Hart Founder Project Gutenberg From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Nov 1 09:36:22 2005 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 1 09:36:32 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] pg 2(thousand) Message-ID: <19b.401bbbda.30990196@aol.com> michael said: > and some of the Google books are in progress. actually, some of 'em have even been finished, diffed, compared, and discussed, ad nauseum... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051101/dcdb868f/attachment.html From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Tue Nov 1 15:14:37 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 1 15:14:58 2005 Subject: Fwd: [gutvol-d] Free Beer ! OOOPS! Message-ID: <236.1c941e.309950dd@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Gutenberg9443@aol.com Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Free Beer ! OOOPS! Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:10:28 EST Size: 3518 Url: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051101/c3ce96e0/attachment.mht From ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca Tue Nov 1 20:01:46 2005 From: ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca (Wallace J.McLean) Date: Tue Nov 1 20:02:03 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] 28+14 Message-ID: <9f7b99b95d.9b95d9f7b9@ncf.ca> > only from the founding of the US to ~1831, when 14 + 14 was repleaced > by 28 + 14, a standard which I don't recall was ever adopted elsewhere. > This "standard" was again replaced in 1909 with 28 + 28, and again in > 1976 with 75 years [renewal not needed] and in 1998 with 95 years. 28+14 was also the pre-Berne term in Canada and Newfoundland, and in the pre-Confederation Province of Canada. At one point during the late pre-Confederation period (1840s? 1850s?), at least Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island also had n+14 terms, although their initial terms were 21 years, not 28. I'd suspect you'd find a similar history throughout the Commonwealth jurisdictions. Anyone have info on early Australian, NZ, or RSA terms? From marcello at perathoner.de Sun Nov 6 09:30:13 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:30:22 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org Message-ID: <436E3DA5.20301@perathoner.de> The first experimental PG plucker server is up. The goal is to convert ebooks to the plucker format on-the-fly. Plucker: see: www.plkr.org Find the no. of the ebook you want and then call this url: http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/plucker/17000.plucker (replace 17000 with the ebook no.) Building the file may take some time when the servers are busy. But the second download should come much faster, out of the cache. If something awful happens, like if no suitable source file was found, you should get an error page. The source file will be HTML if available, else TXT. TXT files are parsed by a custom plucker parser, which works well enough on modern files but gets worse when applied to older ones. Get the "plucker 1.8 viewer package" for PalmOS from http://www.plkr.org/dl You don't need the plucker 'distiller' to view books you get from the PG plucker server. But with the distiller you can also plucker any other web site you like. For PocketPC go here: http://vade-mecum.sourceforge.net/ -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From matthew at mc.clintock.com Sun Nov 6 10:38:12 2005 From: matthew at mc.clintock.com (Matthew McClintock) Date: Sun Nov 6 10:56:21 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <436E3DA5.20301@perathoner.de> References: <436E3DA5.20301@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <58BFC3D7-51C2-42BA-8296-AA5C04A9ADBD@mc.clintock.com> This is really excellent Marcello - are there plans to have the HTML versions incorporate images? If there's interest in adding other formats I'd be glad to assist. -Matt On Nov 6, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > The first experimental PG plucker server is up. The goal is to > convert ebooks to the plucker format on-the-fly. Plucker: see: > www.plkr.org > > > Find the no. of the ebook you want and then call this url: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/plucker/17000.plucker > > (replace 17000 with the ebook no.) > > > Building the file may take some time when the servers are busy. But > the second download should come much faster, out of the cache. > > If something awful happens, like if no suitable source file was > found, you should get an error page. > > The source file will be HTML if available, else TXT. TXT files are > parsed by a custom plucker parser, which works well enough on > modern files but gets worse when applied to older ones. > > -- http://mc.clintock.com http://manybooks.net -- From Bowerbird at aol.com Sun Nov 6 11:00:32 2005 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 11:00:56 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org Message-ID: sounds great! -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051106/fd47a764/attachment.html From JBuck814366460 at aol.com Sun Nov 6 13:54:17 2005 From: JBuck814366460 at aol.com (Jared Buck) Date: Sun Nov 6 13:54:33 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <436E3DA5.20301@perathoner.de> References: <436E3DA5.20301@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <436E7B89.3030605@aol.com> Sounds great, Marcello :) I had a Palm for a while but i lost it purely by accident, so I'm hoping to get another one for christmas. Being able to read the ebooks i want on a Palm while retaining the majority of the formatting is a great thing. I hope to be able to try this out sooner or later. Jared Marcello Perathoner wrote on 06/11/2005, 9:30 AM: > The first experimental PG plucker server is up. The goal is to convert > ebooks to the plucker format on-the-fly. Plucker: see: www.plkr.org > > > Find the no. of the ebook you want and then call this url: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/plucker/17000.plucker > > (replace 17000 with the ebook no.) > > > Building the file may take some time when the servers are busy. But the > second download should come much faster, out of the cache. > > If something awful happens, like if no suitable source file was found, > you should get an error page. > > The source file will be HTML if available, else TXT. TXT files are > parsed by a custom plucker parser, which works well enough on modern > files but gets worse when applied to older ones. > > > Get the "plucker 1.8 viewer package" for PalmOS from > > http://www.plkr.org/dl > > You don't need the plucker 'distiller' to view books you get from the PG > plucker server. But with the distiller you can also plucker any other > web site you like. > > > For PocketPC go here: > > http://vade-mecum.sourceforge.net/ > > > -- > Marcello Perathoner > webmaster@gutenberg.org > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From matthew at mc.clintock.com Sun Nov 6 16:33:51 2005 From: matthew at mc.clintock.com (Matthew McClintock) Date: Sun Nov 6 16:34:06 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <58BFC3D7-51C2-42BA-8296-AA5C04A9ADBD@mc.clintock.com> References: <436E3DA5.20301@perathoner.de> <58BFC3D7-51C2-42BA-8296-AA5C04A9ADBD@mc.clintock.com> Message-ID: <8DAAA14A-3271-4BF1-8A3A-0047D4D55D55@mc.clintock.com> Whoops, sorry - I meant "are there plans to have the plucker versions incorporate the images from the HTML documents?". On Nov 6, 2005, at 12:38 PM, Matthew McClintock wrote: > are there plans to have the HTML versions incorporate images? -- http://mc.clintock.com http://manybooks.net -- From marcello at perathoner.de Mon Nov 7 10:11:44 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Mon Nov 7 10:11:53 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <8DAAA14A-3271-4BF1-8A3A-0047D4D55D55@mc.clintock.com> References: <436E3DA5.20301@perathoner.de> <58BFC3D7-51C2-42BA-8296-AA5C04A9ADBD@mc.clintock.com> <8DAAA14A-3271-4BF1-8A3A-0047D4D55D55@mc.clintock.com> Message-ID: <436F98E0.3040501@perathoner.de> Matthew McClintock wrote: > Whoops, sorry - I meant "are there plans to have the plucker versions > incorporate the images from the HTML documents?". We easily could ... its just the flip of a switch on the plucker distiller. The problem is, once we start including images, people with old hardware will complain about the size of the files. Also we don't have any records about which ebooks contain essential images and which only decorative images. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From joshua at hutchinson.net Mon Nov 7 10:24:42 2005 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Mon Nov 7 10:24:49 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org Message-ID: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> How hard would it be to have two options on the download. One with just text and one with text and images? Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcello Perathoner" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:11:44 +0100 > > Matthew McClintock wrote: > > > Whoops, sorry - I meant "are there plans to have the plucker versions > > incorporate the images from the HTML documents?". > > We easily could ... its just the flip of a switch on the plucker distiller. > > The problem is, once we start including images, people with old hardware will > complain about the size of the files. Also we don't have any records about > which ebooks contain essential images and which only decorative images. > > > > > -- Marcello Perathoner > webmaster@gutenberg.org > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From kreeder at mailsnare.net Mon Nov 7 12:33:05 2005 From: kreeder at mailsnare.net (kreeder@mailsnare.net) Date: Mon Nov 7 13:01:50 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Microsoft to put 100,000 books online Message-ID: <20051107203305.p70jx0pxi8k8k808@horde.mailsnare.net> According to the Associated Press, Microsoft has reached an agreement with "the British Library" (is there only one?) to scan and put online 100,000 books, which will be available free online "next year". The article suggests that the project will be limited to books in the public domain. Microsoft is said to be investing 2.5 million dollars in the project. A full story can be found here: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8DLQH2G0.htm?campaign_id=apn_tech_down&chan=tc From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Mon Nov 7 13:42:22 2005 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Mon Nov 7 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Microsoft to put 100,000 books online In-Reply-To: <20051107203305.p70jx0pxi8k8k808@horde.mailsnare.net> References: <20051107203305.p70jx0pxi8k8k808@horde.mailsnare.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:33:05 +0000, kreeder@mailsnare.net wrote: | According to the Associated Press, Microsoft has reached an agreement with "the | British Library" (is there only one?) http://www.bl.uk/news/2005/pressrelease20051104.html It is *The* British Library, http://www.bl.uk/ It has two main sites the obscure and valuable book in London, and the rest at Boston Spa near Wetherby in Yorkshire. There are hundreds of other libraries in Britain all of which can borrow books from Boston Spa. -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design" From jon.ingram at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 13:43:39 2005 From: jon.ingram at gmail.com (Jon Ingram) Date: Mon Nov 7 13:43:48 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Microsoft to put 100,000 books online In-Reply-To: <20051107203305.p70jx0pxi8k8k808@horde.mailsnare.net> References: <20051107203305.p70jx0pxi8k8k808@horde.mailsnare.net> Message-ID: <4baf53720511071343s6311eeecuba59071e0ddeb887@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/05, kreeder@mailsnare.net wrote: > According to the Associated Press, Microsoft has reached an agreement with "the > British Library" (is there only one?) to scan and put online 100,000 books, > which will be available free online "next year". The article suggests that the > project will be limited to books in the public domain. Microsoft is said to be > investing 2.5 million dollars in the project. Interesting. I hope by public domain they mean public domain in the EU, rather than America -- there are tens of thousands of books written after 1923 by authors who died before 1935. -- Jon Ingram From marcello at perathoner.de Mon Nov 7 15:17:29 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Mon Nov 7 15:17:42 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <436FE089.6090408@perathoner.de> Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > How hard would it be to have two options on the download. One with > just text and one with text and images? Not very hard on the technical side. Very hard on the administrative side. "Images" is not a clear cut boolean choice. 1. We don't know which ebooks contain essential illustrations. Some ill-advised PPers have started producing books with such useless fluff as drop caps (included as images) fancy horizontal rules (included as images) etc. Including those will only put off PDA users. 2. You can include pictures at different resolutions and color depths. We'll soon start producing files with 1bpp, 4bpp, 8bpp, 24bpp, original size images, scaled images etc. Every new variant will reduce cache hits. We don't have enough CPU power to generate all those variants. If you want images, you can run the plucker distiller on your PC and adjust all these parameters to your hearts content. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From bruce at zuhause.org Mon Nov 7 21:33:38 2005 From: bruce at zuhause.org (Bruce Albrecht) Date: Mon Nov 7 21:33:55 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <436FE089.6090408@perathoner.de> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <436FE089.6090408@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <17264.14514.848932.605433@celery.zuhause.org> Marcello Perathoner writes: > We don't know which ebooks contain essential illustrations. > > Some ill-advised PPers have started producing books with such useless > fluff as drop caps (included as images) fancy horizontal rules (included > as images) etc. Including those will only put off PDA users. Some people enjoy the reproduction of the decorative elements from the original book. If the decorative elements were in a class, could your plucker distiller leave them out? From tstowell at chattanooga.net Mon Nov 7 21:30:24 2005 From: tstowell at chattanooga.net (Tim Stowell) Date: Mon Nov 7 22:02:48 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Microsoft to put 100,000 books online In-Reply-To: <20051107203305.p70jx0pxi8k8k808@horde.mailsnare.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20051108003024.023ed100@mail.chattanooga.net> At 08:33 PM 11/7/05 +0000, you wrote: >According to the Associated Press, Microsoft has reached an agreement with "the >British Library" (is there only one?) to scan and put online 100,000 books, >which will be available free online "next year". The article suggests that the >project will be limited to books in the public domain. Microsoft is said to be >investing 2.5 million dollars in the project. > >A full story can be found here: > >http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8DLQH2G0.htm?campaign_id=apn_ tech_down&chan=tc > Another similar project - LDS Digitizing Books, on-line NOW at BYU !!! The Family History Library is starting todigitize their book holdings, mostly family histories to date, andthey are putting them on-line, fully search able by any word oradvanced search combinations. Five thousand plus of these books are on the Brigham Young UniversityLibrary servers and readily accessible, NOW! Here is a partial clip of an announcement I just received " the LDS Family History Library has announced that it has begun theprocess of digitizing and making available on the Internet all of theFamily History books in their collection. These are primarily books inthe "929.273Series" that are currently housed on the first floor ofthe Family History Library (previously housed on the fourth floor ofthe Joseph Smith Memorial Building). At the present time (September2005), about 5000 books have been digitized and are available, andthey have announced that they are adding about 100 titles a week tothe on-line collection. Copyright issues are playing a role indetermining the order in which they progress through this task; booksout of copyright are being done first." Go to the web site of the Harold B. Lee Library at BYU athttp://www.lib.byu.edu/ , then on the home page, follow the links:Find Other Materials; Electronic; On Line Collections at BYU; TextCollections tab; Family History Archive from the list of collections that are displayed. Tim Stowell From gbnewby at pglaf.org Tue Nov 8 00:56:10 2005 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Tue Nov 8 00:56:14 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Project Gutenberg AJAX search engine tool In-Reply-To: References: <20050829085221.GA31715@pglaf.org> Message-ID: <20051108085610.GJ30332@pglaf.org> On Sat, Sep 03, 2005 at 11:32:55AM -0700, joseph callas wrote: > Hello, > > I have completed the test version of the search engine and have the > production version here: > > http://goatstone.com/pg_search/ > > thanks again for your great resource. > > Joseph Collas > goatstone Dear Joseph: I'm perpetually in a time warp it seems, and did not have a chance to respond until now. I'm taking the liberty of cc'ing our discussion mailing list, in case they can provide feedback. I thought your demonstraion was fascinating, and will be of interest. (Folks on -d: please cc' Joseph on anything he might want to hear about: joseph callas ) -- Greg From marcello at perathoner.de Tue Nov 8 07:36:36 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Tue Nov 8 07:36:45 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <17264.14514.848932.605433@celery.zuhause.org> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <436FE089.6090408@perathoner.de> <17264.14514.848932.605433@celery.zuhause.org> Message-ID: <4370C604.7020803@perathoner.de> Bruce Albrecht wrote: > Marcello Perathoner writes: > > We don't know which ebooks contain essential illustrations. > > > > Some ill-advised PPers have started producing books with such useless > > fluff as drop caps (included as images) fancy horizontal rules (included > > as images) etc. Including those will only put off PDA users. > > Some people enjoy the reproduction of the decorative elements from the > original book. But the cost is too high. Especially the illuminated drop caps break the etext when viewed in many user-agents. This is how #7870 looks in lynx: --- THE PATERNOSTERS. A YACHTING STORY. A ND do you really mean that we are to cross by the steamer, Mr. Virtue, while you go over in the Seabird? I do not approve of that at all. ... --- It also breaks in plucker, and will drive anybody mad that uses the text as source for automatic processing, like text-to-speech etc. > If the decorative elements were in a class, could your > plucker distiller leave them out? It could leave the image out. But the text will still be broken because it uses presentational attributes (float: left) to make a drop cap. To automatically re-insert the letter into the paragraph it was explicitly floated out is beyond hope. I'll have to write a patch to the distiller, then convince the plucker developers that this is a useful feature, ... much work that would better be spent elsewhere. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Nov 8 07:48:42 2005 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 07:48:54 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] "illuminated" drop-caps Message-ID: <90.6a842159.30a222da@aol.com> i was fuming at those illuminated drop-caps as soon as they started doing so, but felt that it'd be useless for _me_ to complain about it... it breaks the text to use them. please fix it... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051108/1c63fb13/attachment.html From jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph Tue Nov 8 13:49:19 2005 From: jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph (Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account)) Date: Tue Nov 8 13:44:48 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <436FE089.6090408@perathoner.de> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <436FE089.6090408@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <43711D5F.5030405@bohol.ph> Marcello Perathoner wrote: > 1. > > We don't know which ebooks contain essential illustrations. > > Some ill-advised PPers have started producing books with such useless > fluff as drop caps (included as images) fancy horizontal rules > (included as images) etc. Including those will only put off PDA users. Sometimes, the illuminated caps are the most beautiful part of the book.... It would help, though if we could tag importance to images. No need to keep every florette, but keeping some essential maps and illustrations would certainly helps. Having a mechanism in place to distinguish them may be nice... From mkengel at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 16:58:50 2005 From: mkengel at gmail.com (Michael Engel) Date: Wed Nov 9 16:59:03 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Fwd: [CHMINF-L] Copyrights as a textbook scam? Message-ID: This might interest some on the gutvol list ? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Robert Michaelson Date: Nov 10, 2005 4:41 AM Subject: [CHMINF-L] GENERAL: Copyrights as a textbook scam? To: CHMINF-L@listserv.indiana.edu Please excuse duplicate posting. Another economist discusses publishers' monopolies -- this time as applied to textbooks, but it seems to me that one could make a parallel argument about journals, particularly on the Internet. Are Copyrights a Textbook Scam? Alternatives to Financing Textbook Production in the 21st Century" by Dean Baker, Center for Economic and Policy Research: "Economists view copyright monopolies as inefficient because they create a large gap between the price of a textbook and the marginal cost - the cost to the publisher of creating an additional copy. This cost can effectively be zero, when the option exists to transfer material over the Internet. This gap between price and marginal cost is the exact same issue that leads economists to view trade barriers as inefficient." "Of course there is a rationale for copyright monopolies: the monopoly allows the publisher to recoup the expenses of producing the book, the fees paid to the author(s), editors, illustrators, and other upfront costs... However, copyrights are only one way to cover these costs and not necessarily the best way." Bob Michaelson Northwestern University Library Evanston, Illinois 60208 USA rmichael@northwestern.edu CHMINF-L Archives (also to join or leave CHMINF-L, etc.) http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/chminf-l.html Search the CHMINF-L archives at: https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?S1=chminf-l From jtinsley at pobox.com Sat Nov 12 10:43:37 2005 From: jtinsley at pobox.com (Jim Tinsley) Date: Sat Nov 12 10:49:16 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Article on how the IA/OCA actually scans Message-ID: <20051112184337.GA16775@panix.com> (via Slashdot) http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113111987803688478-VNpw62xi_JA4avE8cxOZf0pf_nM_20061109.html?mod=blogs How the Internet Archive is actually scanning the books: a view from one of the people actually pushing the pedals (literally) on the machines. jim From store2net at adelphia.net Sat Nov 12 19:34:21 2005 From: store2net at adelphia.net (David Meo) Date: Sun Nov 13 08:07:58 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] paypay link on gutenberg.org page seems broke Message-ID: <000001c5e803$22e2ec10$d701a8c0@a1> Hello , I just downloaded a few books to put on my new PDA, and decided to again donate something. But the PayPal link seems broke. An error message is displayed at the initial Paypal screen to please enter an amount greater than zero. I am letting you know because since I couldn't find another email address on the www.gutenberg.org web site. Could you please let the web master know about the problem. Thanks ,... Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051112/6063c7b4/attachment.html From marcello at perathoner.de Sun Nov 13 08:17:51 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Sun Nov 13 08:17:57 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] paypay link on gutenberg.org page seems broke In-Reply-To: <000001c5e803$22e2ec10$d701a8c0@a1> References: <000001c5e803$22e2ec10$d701a8c0@a1> Message-ID: <4377672F.5090509@perathoner.de> David Meo wrote: > Hello , > > I just downloaded a few books to put on my new PDA, and decided > to again donate something. > > But the PayPal link seems broke. > > An error message is displayed at the initial Paypal screen to please enter > an amount greater than zero. Works for me. There is an edit box where you are supposed to enter the amount you wish to donate and then you can select "Secure Checkout" for card payment or "Log In" if you have a PayPal account. This is the url I'm using: https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=donate%40gutenberg.org&item_name=Donation+to+Project+Gutenberg More ways to donate can be found here: http://www.gutenberg.org/fundraising/donate -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Sun Nov 13 10:23:11 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 13 10:23:23 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Fwd: [CHMINF-L] Copyrights as a textbook scam? Message-ID: <25d.f579ce.30a8de8f@aol.com> In a message dated 11/9/2005 5:59:16 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, mkengel@gmail.com writes: Economists view copyright monopolies as inefficient because they create a large gap between the price of a textbook and the marginal cost - the cost to the publisher of creating an additional copy. This cost can effectively be zero, when the option exists to transfer material over the Internet. This gap between price and marginal cost is the exact same issue that leads economists to view trade barriers as inefficient." This is neither the best nor the most important issue regarding trade barriers, though it is an important one. This is particularly true in things like freshman and sophomore English textbooks. They have no need at all of graphics (If I-as-teacher, which thank Heaven I no longer am, feel my students will be starving for information if they don't see a color photo of a painting of Sir Walter Raleigh, I can always take a picture of Sir Walter Raleigh to class and pass it around); the textbooks may be extremely expensive because of the cost of using copyrighted material, which in turn used copyrighted material. Big fleas have little fleas Upon their backs to bite 'em. Little fleas have lesser fleas And so on ad infinitum. In the past month I have had several (don't remember how many, as many of the requests were by telephone) people asking permission to put Gutenberg material in their self-published textbooks, which they prepare for their students and sell at cost, instead of buying "one size fits all" textbooks, and how much it would cost to use. I grow weary of explaining the same thing over and over and over. Almost all of it is eighteenth and nineteenth century stuff, and you'd think that anybody who is sufficiently well educated to teach in college would know that eighteenth and nineteenth century stuff is automatically out of copyright, even if the notes, bib, and other impedimenta aren't. I see no reason at all for ANY textbooks. It is perfectly possible, right now, for everything from K through Ph.D. to be put on ONE halfway decent notebook computer. Thus when something changes, such as Pluto now has three moons, the writer or editor of the textbook can go on and make the change at once and the student could immediately download the insert for something like 49 cents, which is the least that FictionWise will let me sell something for--I tried to sell an essay I wrote 45 years ago for 29 cents. Yes, it is necessary for the writer, editor, and publisher all to make a living, but that can be done without charging 200 dollars for a textbook which was probably outdated before it hit the printing press. It has been pointed out to me that students lose textbooks. It is not necessary to lose textbooks. The second time the student has to fork over $700 dollars for a new notebook, even if he can go to the company he bought the etext from and get a new copy for free, the number of lost computers per capita will become a lot smaller than it is now. One tends to get a little careful, using such options as putting their computer bag between their ankles instead of on an open shelf when they are eating lunch. I'm still rewriting, editing, and selling my books, as I now have copyright reversion on all but two nonfiction books which I don't have the time and energy to research and rewrite anyway. I'm reselling them for somewhere between 2.99 and 4.99. I noticed last week that the book I'll have for sale at FictionWise next Monday (not tmrw) sold, in hardcover format, for almost $40. Gee whiz. How odd that the publisher couldn't possible sell it for less. How odd that it wound up remaindered--though there were under 100 copies unsold at the time. I value my imagination highly, but I'm not vain enough to think that people should rush to pay $40 for something which came entirely out of my brain. (No, the writer has absolutely no say in this, any more than s/he does with the cover. My cover artist at St. Martin's Press, with which I am no longer affiliated, kept putting saguaro cactuses in covers of books set in Fort Worth, Texas. Uh, there are no saguaro cactuses living in Fort Worth, unless somebody brought them there and is keeping them in some kind of screen room.) And I am able to pay my writers MORE money per sale of a $3.99 ebook than those writers would have gotten per hardback book. Day before yesterday I bought two novels by Laurie King from eBookWise. I paid slightly more for them than I would have paid for a paperback, but certainly nowhere near what I would have paid in hardback. Just after I entered grad school I was lucky enough to find a complete set of "Great Books of the Western World" for $20 at a garage sale. Those enabled me to avoid buying at least two thousand dollars worth of textbooks. So now my "Great Books" have writing all over them, and so what? One of the reasons I still have my ragged, ratty-looking Shakespeare that I bought as a college freshman is that although I have "complete Shakespeare" books that are cleaner and newer, I still want all those notes I wrote in that one over the course of many years. If notebook computers had been available then, I could have had the book up on half the screen and a word processing program up on the other half of the screen, and I type a lot faster and more legibly than I handwrite. I-as-student can always go to the library if I will absolutely die if I don't have the impedimenta; professors usually put books they're teaching from in a special area which will allow the books to be checked out no longer than 4 hours at a time. I could address this topic for hours, and have done so despite my guests' eyes glazing over, but I definitely consider textbooks as they are now sold to be a monstrous rip-off, especially when such a high percentage of students now are supporting themselves. They can't leave the university bookstore at the beginning of each semester without paying out two months' worth of rent if they are living in the cheapest place they can find. Okay, now I will go down off my soapbox and go back to what I was doing, which I think was reading email. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051113/b6d3c083/attachment.html From donovan at abs.net Sun Nov 13 14:12:53 2005 From: donovan at abs.net (D Garcia) Date: Sun Nov 13 14:10:52 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <4370C604.7020803@perathoner.de> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <17264.14514.848932.605433@celery.zuhause.org> <4370C604.7020803@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <200511131712.54169.donovan@abs.net> On Tuesday 08 November 2005 10:36 am, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > But the cost is too high. Especially the illuminated drop caps break the > etext when viewed in many user-agents. This is how #7870 looks in lynx: > > --- > > THE PATERNOSTERS. > > A YACHTING STORY. > > A > > ND do you really mean that we are to cross by the steamer, > Mr. Virtue, while you go over in the Seabird? I do not > approve of that at all. ... There's no reason a pre-processing script can't be used to detect an image with single-letter alt text before a paragraph and rewrite that bit before passing it to lynx. Granted, the decorative rules, etc. are less straightforward. From marcello at perathoner.de Sun Nov 13 14:42:32 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Sun Nov 13 14:42:44 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <200511131712.54169.donovan@abs.net> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <17264.14514.848932.605433@celery.zuhause.org> <4370C604.7020803@perathoner.de> <200511131712.54169.donovan@abs.net> Message-ID: <4377C158.1040506@perathoner.de> D Garcia wrote: >>But the cost is too high. Especially the illuminated drop caps break the >>etext when viewed in many user-agents. This is how #7870 looks in lynx: >> >>--- >> >>THE PATERNOSTERS. >> >> A YACHTING STORY. >> >> A >> >> ND do you really mean that we are to cross by the steamer, >> Mr. Virtue, while you go over in the Seabird? I do not >> approve of that at all. ... > > > There's no reason a pre-processing script can't be used to detect an image > with single-letter alt text before a paragraph and rewrite that bit before > passing it to lynx. You don't see the problem. All people who use a non-css user-agent (browser, screen-reader, text-to-speech processor, braille line, etc.) will have this problem. Should they all write a script before reading the book? PG has always laid great stress on posting correct html. This html is plainly broken and should not have been posted. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From donovan at abs.net Mon Nov 14 15:30:12 2005 From: donovan at abs.net (D Garcia) Date: Mon Nov 14 15:28:11 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <4377C158.1040506@perathoner.de> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <200511131712.54169.donovan@abs.net> <4377C158.1040506@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <200511141830.12568.donovan@abs.net> On Sunday 13 November 2005 05:42 pm, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > You don't see the problem. > > All people who use a non-css user-agent (browser, screen-reader, > text-to-speech processor, braille line, etc.) will have this problem. > Should they all write a script before reading the book? Perhaps you don't see the solution. _PG_ can apply such a script to an ebook before processing it through say, the plucker distiller. Should PG say "oh, we can't/shouldn't have to do this" or should > PG has always laid great stress on posting correct html. This html is > plainly broken and should not have been posted. The HTML is correct. W3 says so. Lynx's (or other user-agents) ability to render it is what is broken and/or insufficient. You see that as an indictment of the data, when the problem is the tool. I'm very surprised to see an *ix person of long-standing apparently unable to see that this is a case where the long-standing *ix tradition of filtering data before passing it along could be readily applied to satisfy all parties requirements. From marcello at perathoner.de Mon Nov 14 17:55:24 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Mon Nov 14 17:55:39 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <200511141830.12568.donovan@abs.net> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <200511131712.54169.donovan@abs.net> <4377C158.1040506@perathoner.de> <200511141830.12568.donovan@abs.net> Message-ID: <4379400C.80601@perathoner.de> D Garcia wrote: > _PG_ can apply such a script to an ebook before processing it through say, the > plucker distiller. Should PG say "oh, we can't/shouldn't have to do this" or > should "PG" could also write a script that applies a list of errata on-the-fly before the file leaves the server. But unsurprisingly PG prefers to fix the file instead. > The HTML is correct. W3 says so. The HTML is not only bogus, but gratuitously so. It could have been made to work with any browser with very small effort of the brain. The following example works with IE60, IE55, IE50, Firefox, Opera, Konqueror, lynx, links and w3m, with both styles enabled or disabled in the browsers that let you choose.

Chapter 1

A merry party were sitting in the verandah of one of the largest and handsomest bungalows of Poonah. It belonged to Colonel Hastings, colonel of a native regiment stationed there, and at present, in virtue of seniority, commanding a brigade. Tiffin was on, and three or four officers and four ladies had taken their seats in the comfortable cane lounging chairs which form the invariable furniture of the verandah of a well-ordered bungalow. Permission had been duly asked, and granted by Mrs. Hastings, and the cheroots had just begun to draw, when Miss Hastings, a niece of the colonel, who had only arrived the previous week from England, said, commanding a brigade. Tiffin was on, and three or four officers and four ladies had taken their seats in the comfortable cane lounging chairs which form the invariable furniture of the verandah of a well-ordered bungalow. Permission had been duly asked, and granted by Mrs. Hastings, and the cheroots had just begun to draw, when Miss Hastings, a niece of the colonel, who had only arrived the previous week from England, said,

-- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From prosfilaes at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 19:52:50 2005 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Mon Nov 14 19:53:06 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <4379400C.80601@perathoner.de> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <200511131712.54169.donovan@abs.net> <4377C158.1040506@perathoner.de> <200511141830.12568.donovan@abs.net> <4379400C.80601@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0511141952l25217eddpe88e7aeaf7774f18@mail.gmail.com> On 11/14/05, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > The HTML is not only bogus, but gratuitously so. It could have been made > to work with any browser with very small effort of the brain. Marcello, could you try to be a little politer? You seem to have a deep understanding of HTML and CSS, but that was hardly obvious to many of us who have a decent understanding of HTML, and many of our post-proofers have little understanding of HTML or computers; they just doing the best they can and working by rote at points. There's no need to insult them for trying to produce a good looking document. From marcello at perathoner.de Tue Nov 15 05:30:37 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Tue Nov 15 05:31:03 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <6d99d1fd0511141952l25217eddpe88e7aeaf7774f18@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <200511131712.54169.donovan@abs.net> <4377C158.1040506@perathoner.de> <200511141830.12568.donovan@abs.net> <4379400C.80601@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0511141952l25217eddpe88e7aeaf7774f18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4379E2FD.1010503@perathoner.de> David Starner wrote: >>The HTML is not only bogus, but gratuitously so. It could have been made >>to work with any browser with very small effort of the brain. > > Marcello, could you try to be a little politer? You seem to have a > deep understanding of HTML and CSS, but that was hardly obvious to > many of us who have a decent understanding of HTML, and many of our > post-proofers have little understanding of HTML or computers; they > just doing the best they can and working by rote at points. There's no > need to insult them for trying to produce a good looking document. Sorry. I got carried away by D Garcia's arguments, which are almost as good as You Know Who'se. To the PPers: I'm no CSS expert neither, but if you google for: css "drop cap" image you get to this site: http://www.stopdesign.com/articles/replace_text/ which explains the thing exactly. Next time some PPer wants to introduce a new feature I strongly advise him/her doing some research beforehand. There are many excellent CSS resources online. Also, a question asked on this list would have sufficed. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From gbnewby at pglaf.org Tue Nov 15 09:04:25 2005 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Tue Nov 15 09:04:28 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] CD/DVD ISO online demo Message-ID: <20051115170425.GA30030@pglaf.org> Here's something fun to try: some of you have already heard about our custom "build a CD/DVD" program. This was developed primarily by Craig Stephenson, a student and ARSC employee where I work (the Arctic Region Supercomputing Center at the University of Alaska Fairbanks). It lets you make your own custom collection of Project Gutenberg content, and build an ISO file (suitable for burning a CD or DVD) for download. This week, through Thursday afternoon at 4:00 pm (PST), you can try this CD/DVD maker on a much faster system & network than I'm able to offer at the regular site. Visit this URL to try it: http://a163.112.sc05.org/pgiso This is basically the same software as is at the regular place, http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/pgiso But, it's on a much faster network, called "SciNet," the network at the annual Supercomputing conference (http://sc05.supercomputing.org). For these next few days, I'm running some experiments at the Supercomputing conference in the ARSC booth (#112), including this ISO maker. Please note that this is a temporary installation, so any ISOs or collections you make will not be incorporated back into the "main" site on snowy.arsc.alaska.edu. In other words, anything you make will need to be downloaded by 4:00 pm PST Thursday November 17. Feedback, as always, is welcome. -- Greg From gbnewby at pglaf.org Tue Nov 15 09:04:25 2005 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (gbnewby@pglaf.org) Date: Tue Nov 15 09:40:02 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [gutvol-l] CD/DVD ISO online demo Message-ID: <20051115170425.GA30030@pglaf.org> Here's something fun to try: some of you have already heard about our custom "build a CD/DVD" program. This was developed primarily by Craig Stephenson, a student and ARSC employee where I work (the Arctic Region Supercomputing Center at the University of Alaska Fairbanks). It lets you make your own custom collection of Project Gutenberg content, and build an ISO file (suitable for burning a CD or DVD) for download. This week, through Thursday afternoon at 4:00 pm (PST), you can try this CD/DVD maker on a much faster system & network than I'm able to offer at the regular site. Visit this URL to try it: http://a163.112.sc05.org/pgiso This is basically the same software as is at the regular place, http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/pgiso But, it's on a much faster network, called "SciNet," the network at the annual Supercomputing conference (http://sc05.supercomputing.org). For these next few days, I'm running some experiments at the Supercomputing conference in the ARSC booth (#112), including this ISO maker. Please note that this is a temporary installation, so any ISOs or collections you make will not be incorporated back into the "main" site on snowy.arsc.alaska.edu. In other words, anything you make will need to be downloaded by 4:00 pm PST Thursday November 17. Feedback, as always, is welcome. -- Greg _______________________________________________ gutvol-l mailing list gutvol-l@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-l From donovan at abs.net Tue Nov 15 15:51:32 2005 From: donovan at abs.net (D Garcia) Date: Tue Nov 15 15:49:52 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <4379E2FD.1010503@perathoner.de> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <6d99d1fd0511141952l25217eddpe88e7aeaf7774f18@mail.gmail.com> <4379E2FD.1010503@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <200511151851.32307.donovan@abs.net> On Tuesday 15 November 2005 08:30 am, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > Sorry. I got carried away by D Garcia's arguments, which are almost as > good as You Know Who'se. (Meanwhile, the rest of the list is having a rational discussion.) I tried to present an approach for you to address the problem in existing files, it's too bad you saw it as an argument instead of a discussion of possible solutions. See below for future file suggestions. > Next time some PPer wants to introduce a new feature I strongly advise > him/her doing some research beforehand. There are many excellent CSS > resources online. I suspect few of them address this specific concern, and fewer volunteers would know of the concern in the first place, much less be able to choose what works best for PG from the various alternatives out there. > Also, a question asked on this list would have sufficed. No one knew it was an issue until you brought it up, and when you did, you didn't offer a solution or even a recommendation beyond disparaging what you called "fluff." Now that you have _finally_ said "This is the problem we're experiencing, this is how I recommend that contributors avoid creating it." we can all cooperate to deliver a better experience for everyone, including making your life easier. Now that this is aired out, why not get the WW'ers involved and put this sort of information into the FAQ so that everyone benefits? And while we're at it, also discuss how to address other cases such as the decorative rules and finials and such that are causing Marcello such grief. David From tb at baechler.net Wed Nov 16 07:35:39 2005 From: tb at baechler.net (Tony Baechler) Date: Wed Nov 16 07:33:47 2005 Subject: Fidonet - Re: [gutvol-d] [gutvol-l] CD/DVD ISO online demo In-Reply-To: <20051115170425.GA30030@pglaf.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20051116072836.032d1840@127.0.0.1> Hello all and especially Greg. Sorry for the off topic post but I was shocked to see this in the header of your message to the list. X-FTN-Sender: Greg Newby Having grown up on Fidonet, I can't help but ask how things are. I see the network is still limping along, even though zone 1 is basically dead as of a couple years ago. I've read that Europe is still fairly active in Fidonet so I'm curious. Also, if you don't mind my asking, how do you happen to be using a Fidonet point to send out at the supercomputing conference? In a feeble attempt to keep on topic, I would like to say that one of my earliest exposures to PG was via BBSs, many of which were on Fidonet. At one time, many new PG posts went through the various file networks and showed up on BBSs all over the world. I wonder how many people knew about PG just because of that. It was still a luxury to get Internet access in those days unless you were at a university. Although I often grow nostalgic for the old days of the BBS, I've long since realized that those days are past. That's too bad since Fidonet was much friendlier and more personal than the Internet. Ah well, sorry for my nostalgia trip. From hart at pglaf.org Wed Nov 16 08:37:33 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Wed Nov 16 08:37:34 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Plucker server on gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <200511151851.32307.donovan@abs.net> References: <20051107182442.B6A0FEE291@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> <6d99d1fd0511141952l25217eddpe88e7aeaf7774f18@mail.gmail.com> <4379E2FD.1010503@perathoner.de> <200511151851.32307.donovan@abs.net> Message-ID: You might also want to check out "manybooks" They provide many Project Gutenberg eBooks in various formats, as do a number of other sites. Michael On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, D Garcia wrote: > On Tuesday 15 November 2005 08:30 am, Marcello Perathoner wrote: >> Sorry. I got carried away by D Garcia's arguments, which are almost as >> good as You Know Who'se. > > (Meanwhile, the rest of the list is having a rational discussion.) > > I tried to present an approach for you to address the problem in existing > files, it's too bad you saw it as an argument instead of a discussion of > possible solutions. See below for future file suggestions. > >> Next time some PPer wants to introduce a new feature I strongly advise >> him/her doing some research beforehand. There are many excellent CSS >> resources online. > > I suspect few of them address this specific concern, and fewer volunteers > would know of the concern in the first place, much less be able to choose > what works best for PG from the various alternatives out there. > >> Also, a question asked on this list would have sufficed. > > No one knew it was an issue until you brought it up, and when you did, you > didn't offer a solution or even a recommendation beyond disparaging what you > called "fluff." Now that you have _finally_ said "This is the problem we're > experiencing, this is how I recommend that contributors avoid creating it." > we can all cooperate to deliver a better experience for everyone, including > making your life easier. > > Now that this is aired out, why not get the WW'ers involved and put this sort > of information into the FAQ so that everyone benefits? And while we're at it, > also discuss how to address other cases such as the decorative rules and > finials and such that are causing Marcello such grief. > > David > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From hart at pglaf.org Wed Nov 16 08:54:48 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Wed Nov 16 08:54:50 2005 Subject: Fidonet - Re: [gutvol-d] [gutvol-l] CD/DVD ISO online demo In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20051116072836.032d1840@127.0.0.1> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20051116072836.032d1840@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Tony Baechler wrote: > Hello all and especially Greg. Sorry for the off topic post but I was > shocked to see this in the header of your message to the list. > > X-FTN-Sender: Greg Newby > > Having grown up on Fidonet, I can't help but ask how things are. I see the > network is still limping along, even though zone 1 is basically dead as of a > couple years ago. I've read that Europe is still fairly active in Fidonet so > I'm curious. Also, if you don't mind my asking, how do you happen to be > using a Fidonet point to send out at the supercomputing conference? > > In a feeble attempt to keep on topic, I would like to say that one of my > earliest exposures to PG was via BBSs, many of which were on Fidonet. At one > time, many new PG posts went through the various file networks and showed up > on BBSs all over the world. I wonder how many people knew about PG just > because of that. It was still a luxury to get Internet access in those days > unless you were at a university. Although I often grow nostalgic for the old > days of the BBS, I've long since realized that those days are past. That's > too bad since Fidonet was much friendlier and more personal than the > Internet. Ah well, sorry for my nostalgia trip. When I was a BBS sysop 20 years ago, we posted the early Project Gutenberg efforts on various BBSs, including some FidoNet sites, and they propated there quite well, thanks for asking. I also recall FidoNet as being very friendly, much moreso than PLATO, NOVANet, etc., though I suppose we should also think about uunet. Speaking of uunet, was there something else with a similar name in Europe? eunet, or something? Thanks! Michael From nwolcott at dsdial.net Wed Nov 16 13:38:41 2005 From: nwolcott at dsdial.net (N Wolcott) Date: Wed Nov 16 13:39:58 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG Canada Message-ID: <005901c5eaf6$2403a440$7f9495ce@gw98> Did PG Canada ever get off the ground, and can books be submitted to them yet??? Likewise with PGEu, are they accepting books?? Is PG australia still functioning and able to accept books? Are there any other life+50 sites accepting etexts?? Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051116/e1aee524/attachment.html From nwolcott at dsdial.net Wed Nov 16 13:44:01 2005 From: nwolcott at dsdial.net (N Wolcott) Date: Wed Nov 16 13:50:14 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit Message-ID: <006a01c5eaf7$925394e0$7f9495ce@gw98> Can the masters at DP and PG investigate whether books at ebooksgratuit may be harvested?? I know that arrangements have been made with gallica and Canadiana so that all of their product is automatically "pre cleared". Ebooksgratuit has etexts of almost all of Jules Verne books in French from original PD cources, but they do not show the title page in their texts as they have been ocr'ed. Many of the books are obscure and they must have verified them before posting. They are already in DOC format and easy to transfer. any suggestions? Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051116/b44b0443/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Wed Nov 16 13:57:52 2005 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Wed Nov 16 13:58:01 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit Message-ID: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Since there are already quite a few in the archive ... I'd say that someone already did. ie Title: L'?le myst?rieuse Author: Jules Verne Release Date: December 7, 2004 [EBook #14287] Language: French Character set encoding: ISO-8859-1 *** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK L'?LE MYST?RIEUSE *** Produced by Ebooks libres et gratuits at http://www.ebooksgratuits.com Also: Why should someone else do this for you? if this was something you were interested in, why not check with them yourself? Why do the "masters" have to check it for you? JHutch ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Wolcott" To: "'Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion'" Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:44:01 -0500 > > Can the masters at DP and PG investigate whether books at ebooksgratuit may be > harvested?? I know that arrangements have been made with gallica and Canadiana > so that all of their product is automatically "pre cleared". Ebooksgratuit has > etexts of almost all of Jules Verne books in French from original PD cources, > but they do not show the title page in their texts as they have been ocr'ed. > Many of the books are obscure and they must have verified them before posting. > They are already in DOC format and easy to transfer. > > any suggestions? > Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From vze3rknp at verizon.net Wed Nov 16 14:01:16 2005 From: vze3rknp at verizon.net (Juliet Sutherland) Date: Wed Nov 16 14:01:23 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit In-Reply-To: <006a01c5eaf7$925394e0$7f9495ce@gw98> References: <006a01c5eaf7$925394e0$7f9495ce@gw98> Message-ID: <437BAC2C.7090607@verizon.net> gallica and Canadiana books are NOT precleared. They must go through the same copyright clearance process as any other book. Since they provide scans, those scans are can be submitted for copyright clearance. If a date is in doubt and the scans come from them, we will usually accept the data that they provide. I know that there are people who have been putting ebooks from ebookgratuit into PG as they are able to get the TP&V scans for copyright clearance. I don't remember who has been coordinating that effort, but I'm sure someone will reply to answer that part of the question. JulietS N Wolcott wrote: > Can the masters at DP and PG investigate whether books at > ebooksgratuit may be harvested?? I know that arrangements have been > made with gallica and Canadiana so that all of their product is > automatically "pre cleared". Ebooksgratuit has etexts of almost all of > Jules Verne books in French from original PD cources, but they do not > show the title page in their texts as they have been ocr'ed. Many of > the books are obscure and they must have verified them before posting. > They are already in DOC format and easy to transfer. > > any suggestions? > Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > From traverso at dm.unipi.it Wed Nov 16 14:58:46 2005 From: traverso at dm.unipi.it (Carlo Traverso) Date: Wed Nov 16 14:54:11 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit In-Reply-To: <437BAC2C.7090607@verizon.net> (message from Juliet Sutherland on Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:01:16 -0500) References: <006a01c5eaf7$925394e0$7f9495ce@gw98> <437BAC2C.7090607@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200511162258.jAGMwkA32647@pico.dm.unipi.it> >>>>> "Juliet" == Juliet Sutherland writes: Juliet> I know that there are people who have been putting ebooks Juliet> from ebookgratuit into PG as they are able to get the TP&V Juliet> scans for copyright clearance. I don't remember who has Juliet> been coordinating that effort, but I'm sure someone will Juliet> reply to answer that part of the question. They contribute directly to PG, when they can get a clearance (since they are based in canada, this is not automatic, they work as life+50). If you can clear one of their books that is not yet in PG, probably you can help them. But they have automatic tools to go from their rtf to PG format, so probably they can do it faster than you. Carlo From sly at victoria.tc.ca Wed Nov 16 15:05:16 2005 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Wed Nov 16 15:05:27 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG Canada In-Reply-To: <005901c5eaf6$2403a440$7f9495ce@gw98> References: <005901c5eaf6$2403a440$7f9495ce@gw98> Message-ID: Hi Norm. On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, N Wolcott wrote: > Did PG Canada ever get off the ground, and can books be submitted to them yet??? Unfortunately, no not yet. Would you like to help give the push to make it happen? > Likewise with PGEu, are they accepting books?? I do not know. I'm sure if you look on the website, you could find an email address of someone to ask. > Is PG australia still functioning and able to accept books? Yes and yes. See: http://gutenberg.net.au/submissions.html > Are there any other life+50 sites accepting etexts?? I know of at least a few other ebook collections based in life+50 countries which are not affiliated with Project Gutenberg. I've found that if you have a text that fits in with their topics, file formats, etc. they are usually happy to have an addition to their collection. Andrew From hart at pglaf.org Thu Nov 17 10:55:29 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Thu Nov 17 10:55:32 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG Canada In-Reply-To: <005901c5eaf6$2403a440$7f9495ce@gw98> References: <005901c5eaf6$2403a440$7f9495ce@gw98> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, N Wolcott wrote: > Did PG Canada ever get off the ground, and can books be submitted to them yet??? > > Likewise with PGEu, are they accepting books?? > > Is PG australia still functioning and able to accept books? > > Are there any other life+50 sites accepting etexts?? > > > Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu I forwarded this message to Zoran, PGEU, and Colin Choat, at PGAU. Michael From nwolcott at dsdial.net Fri Nov 18 08:29:40 2005 From: nwolcott at dsdial.net (N Wolcott) Date: Sat Nov 19 15:12:33 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit References: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> I cannot clear a book from ebooksgratuit as I do not have the tp and verso of the original. Also I have no knowledge that saying it is from ebooksgratuit will pass the copyright censors. Yes some have already been done, many not. My experience has been that only "insiders" get the blanket copyright clearance. Of course I may be wrong, but as far as I know there is no way for me to get clearance. That is whi I posted the question in the first place of course. Juliet's post indicates that they must all be cleared. Obviously someone must have a connection with ebooksgratuit to obtain the tp and v of their books in order to clear them. The indication is that this has already been done; but which books are now clearable is not available. Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Hutchinson" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit > Since there are already quite a few in the archive ... I'd say that someone already did. > > ie > > Title: L'?le myst?rieuse > > Author: Jules Verne > > Release Date: December 7, 2004 [EBook #14287] > > Language: French > > Character set encoding: ISO-8859-1 > > *** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK L'?LE MYST?RIEUSE *** > > Produced by Ebooks libres et gratuits at http://www.ebooksgratuits.com > > > > Also: Why should someone else do this for you? if this was something you were interested in, why not check with them yourself? Why do the "masters" have to check it for you? > > JHutch > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Wolcott" > To: "'Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion'" > Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit > Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:44:01 -0500 > > > > > Can the masters at DP and PG investigate whether books at ebooksgratuit may be > > harvested?? I know that arrangements have been made with gallica and Canadiana > > so that all of their product is automatically "pre cleared". Ebooksgratuit has > > etexts of almost all of Jules Verne books in French from original PD cources, > > but they do not show the title page in their texts as they have been ocr 'ed. > > Many of the books are obscure and they must have verified them before posting. > > They are already in DOC format and easy to transfer. > > > > any suggestions? > > Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > From traverso at dm.unipi.it Sat Nov 19 21:12:18 2005 From: traverso at dm.unipi.it (Carlo Traverso) Date: Sat Nov 19 21:07:21 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit In-Reply-To: <000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> (nwolcott@dsdial.net) References: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> <000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> Message-ID: <200511200512.jAK5CIG21437@pico.dm.unipi.it> People at ebooksgratuits can clear for PG those books for which they have TP&V. They can clear many more books than you because they come first: if they have a book that is easily clearable, they clear it before you have a chance to chip in.... But to clear a book with rule 1 (pre-1923) it is not strictly necessary to have a pre-1923 book, it is sufficient to have a book that says that it reproduces the content of a pre-1923 book. For example, it can say that the book was originally published in xxxx. Something like "Unabridged edition" too might be enough, if you can prove, e.g. through a catalogue search, that the original was published before 1923. I have cleared books from modern reprints in this way. Then you have to follow the detailed instructions given in the PG FAQ, in http://www.gutenberg.org/faq/V-62 . Carlo Traverso From lofstrom at lava.net Sat Nov 19 22:27:57 2005 From: lofstrom at lava.net (Karen Lofstrom) Date: Sat Nov 19 22:58:44 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit In-Reply-To: <200511200512.jAK5CIG21437@pico.dm.unipi.it> References: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> <000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> <200511200512.jAK5CIG21437@pico.dm.unipi.it> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Carlo Traverso wrote: > People at ebooksgratuits can clear for PG those books for which they > have TP&V. Title Publisher and Version? I'm not familiar with this acronym. -- Zora aka Karen Lofstrom From bruce at zuhause.org Sat Nov 19 23:11:25 2005 From: bruce at zuhause.org (Bruce Albrecht) Date: Sat Nov 19 23:11:43 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit In-Reply-To: References: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> <000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> <200511200512.jAK5CIG21437@pico.dm.unipi.it> Message-ID: <17280.8605.413058.286257@celery.zuhause.org> Karen Lofstrom writes: > > On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Carlo Traverso wrote: > > > People at ebooksgratuits can clear for PG those books for which they > > have TP&V. > > Title Publisher and Version? I'm not familiar with this acronym. Title Page & Verso. I.e., The title page, and the opposite side of the title page, which usually contains the copyright information, if any. From ciesiels at bigpond.net.au Sat Nov 19 23:01:54 2005 From: ciesiels at bigpond.net.au (Michael Ciesielski) Date: Sun Nov 20 02:11:08 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit In-Reply-To: References: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> <000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> <200511200512.jAK5CIG21437@pico.dm.unipi.it> Message-ID: <43801F62.50501@bigpond.net.au> Karen Lofstrom a ?crit: > > On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Carlo Traverso wrote: > >> People at ebooksgratuits can clear for PG those books for which they >> have TP&V. > > > Title Publisher and Version? I'm not familiar with this acronym. Title Page and Verso (reverse). --Michael From nwolcott at dsdial.net Sun Nov 20 07:06:08 2005 From: nwolcott at dsdial.net (N Wolcott) Date: Sun Nov 20 07:07:21 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit References: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com><000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> <200511200512.jAK5CIG21437@pico.dm.unipi.it> Message-ID: <002a01c5ede3$f845a4c0$bb9495ce@gw98> I am still confused. Is it the case that ebooksgratuit automatically clears with PG those books which fit PG's requirements? How then do we know that thse books have been cleared? There are many more books on ebooksgratuit than have been listed on PG, presumably because of backlog problems. If I want to put one of these on PG (which might not appear for some time because of the backlog) can I do so? I agree that ebooksgratuit automatic conversion processes should be quicker than me fiddling with the text, but if the book is just not appearing what is one to do??? (I certainly do not want to invent work for myself). Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlo Traverso" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit > > People at ebooksgratuits can clear for PG those books for which they > have TP&V. They can clear many more books than you because they come > first: if they have a book that is easily clearable, they clear it > before you have a chance to chip in.... > > But to clear a book with rule 1 (pre-1923) it is not strictly > necessary to have a pre-1923 book, it is sufficient to have a book > that says that it reproduces the content of a pre-1923 book. For > example, it can say that the book was originally published in xxxx. > Something like "Unabridged edition" too might be enough, if you can > prove, e.g. through a catalogue search, that the original was > published before 1923. I have cleared books from modern reprints in > this way. > > Then you have to follow the detailed instructions given in the PG FAQ, > in http://www.gutenberg.org/faq/V-62 . > > Carlo Traverso > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > From sly at victoria.tc.ca Sun Nov 20 10:03:49 2005 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Sun Nov 20 10:03:58 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuit In-Reply-To: <002a01c5ede3$f845a4c0$bb9495ce@gw98> References: <20051116215752.1A41D4F557@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com><000501c5ed5e$93711e60$b29495ce@gw98> <200511200512.jAK5CIG21437@pico.dm.unipi.it> <002a01c5ede3$f845a4c0$bb9495ce@gw98> Message-ID: Hi Norm. You asked "How then do we know that thse books have been cleared?" As with any text you might be interested in, check out David Price's "In progress" page. He also sends out warning messages to the people involved if he spots duplicate clearances. If you are interested in adding particular books into PG, yes please go ahead and pursue it. Exchanging emails with the people at the site it is coming from would probably be a good idea. I keep finding more and more online texts that could be added to PG. There are many more out there than I could possibly deal with. So I have to pick and choose... Andrew On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, N Wolcott wrote: > I am still confused. Is it the case that ebooksgratuit automatically clears > with PG those books which fit PG's requirements? How then do we know that > thse books have been cleared? There are many more books on ebooksgratuit > than have been listed on PG, presumably because of backlog problems. > > If I want to put one of these on PG (which might not appear for some time > because of the backlog) can I do so? I agree that ebooksgratuit automatic > conversion processes should be quicker than me fiddling with the text, but > if the book is just not appearing what is one to do??? (I certainly do not > want to invent work for myself). > From blondeel at clipper.ens.fr Sun Nov 20 19:55:12 2005 From: blondeel at clipper.ens.fr (Sebastien Blondeel) Date: Sun Nov 20 20:35:27 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] ebooksgratuits In-Reply-To: <006a01c5eaf7$925394e0$7f9495ce@gw98> References: <006a01c5eaf7$925394e0$7f9495ce@gw98> Message-ID: <20051121035512.GC844@clipper.ens.fr> I forwarded this thread to the ebooksgratuits.com (ELG) head of project (CC'd). I roughly translated his reply. 1 - Communication ================= He would have appreciated to be contacted about those issues. He is not comfortable with English. He is open to answer any questions (in French): he believes people not fluent enough in French to communicate with him and his group in French may not be competent to deal about French-language literature. He has set up a webforum for PG/PGDP and ELG volunteers to share ideas, comments, etc.: http://www.ebooksgratuits.com/gizmo/ So far nobody went there but people active on both PG and ELG or having left PG for ELG. 2 - Project snapshot and statistics with respect to PG ====================================================== . 100 ELG books have been published on PG . 10 more will be soon . 30 in the works will eventually be 3 - Workings of ELG =================== He manages everything and takes legal responsibility for what the project does. In a nutshell, it is Canadian law (Life+50) but there are subtleties. Their website features books which are public domain in Canada but not in France. PG clearance ------------ Getting PG clearance is a work- and time-consuming job: ELG does not follow the same rules, they have their own rules (which don't match those of PG), they scan modern editions, etc. In order to get clearance, he must check whether there exists an old edition of the book (Gallica or else), whether it is the same, etc. The group vitality is very good: 70 to 80 active volunteers, 230 books published in less than 11 months, 200,000 books downloaded every month. He works on the the project a few hours everyday and has no time at the moment to deal with clearances. He agrees and would be happy anyone at ELG or PG wishes to take care of that, but would like this to be in collaboration with him. Publication on PG ----------------- Publication on PG: until now, after clearance, he did the conversions himself to the PG requirements for formats (TXT and RTF). He agrees anybody to help with that, in collaboration with them. Note: I will try to help on those two issues. I once did a program to transform his RTF into valid HTML. Now I will probably change it to produce valid TEI XML (which I will learn soon, as well as the various transforming etc. tools around it, when in a few weeks/months I start post-processing my first PGDP projects): http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/blondeel/PGDP/ebooksgratuits/ On a regular basis, I also compile a list of French books available from different sources (PG, PGDP EU/US bronze/silver/gold, ELG, Gallica textetc.): http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/blondeel/PGDP/catalog/ I run into the problem of unique classification of books and authors. For the moment, this is useful to lookup keywords or parts of names. I will include more sources in that little by little (the full Gallica scans and books not scanned yet; Biblioth?que ?lectronique du Qu?bec, etc.) I will probably need to switch to a better database file format than HTML. 4 - Way ELG works ================= http://ebooksgratuits.com/faq.php?categ=%ABFabrication%BB+des+ebooks One person works on a full book at any stage, in her favorite tool (word processor). The different stages for the same book may be done by different people. Phase 1.2 is word by word comparison with the scan. They are very flexible because he is himself very flexible. From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Mon Nov 21 17:10:24 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 21 17:15:52 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <1e2.48e5c1ce.30b3ca00@aol.com> In a message dated 10/27/2005 2:30:15 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, jon@noring.name writes: Marcello asked: > Lee Passey wrote: >> the OpenReader format is likely to be a relatively minor variation >> on the existing OEBPS format. Please pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between OEBFF and OEBPS? Or is this something that I probably can't understand even when it is explained? Anne Do you like to breathe? Then help save the trees! Put an ebook reader in YOUR life! Anne Wingate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051121/066910e4/attachment.html From lee at novomail.net Tue Nov 22 08:06:22 2005 From: lee at novomail.net (Lee Passey) Date: Tue Nov 22 08:06:32 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader In-Reply-To: <1e2.48e5c1ce.30b3ca00@aol.com> References: <1e2.48e5c1ce.30b3ca00@aol.com> Message-ID: <438341FE.6000806@novomail.net> Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/27/2005 2:30:15 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > jon@noring.name writes: > > Marcello asked: > > Lee Passey wrote: > > >> the OpenReader format is likely to be a relatively minor variation > >> on the existing OEBPS format. > > Please pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between OEBFF > and OEBPS? Or is this something that I probably can't understand even > when it is explained? > > Anne The OEBPS is the Open EBook Publication Structure (http://www.idpf.org/oebps/oebps1.2/download/oeb12-xhtml.htm). The OEBFF is the proposed Open EBook File Format (http://web.archive.org/web/20000926004335/www.nuvomedia.com/oebff/OEBFile1DRAFT001.htm). Rarely is the alphabet alone sufficient to create an e-book. Usually, to provide the maximum reading experience a digital publication needs to include markup suggesting how the text should be presented, and may include non-textual items, such as illustrations or cover art. Additionally, it is helpful if a digital publication contains information _about_ the publication which is technically not part of the publication itself; this information is typically referred to as "metadata." The author's identity, publication date, rights assertions and even the Gutenberg boilerplate text are all examples of metadata. The Open EBook Publication Structure is an invention of the Open eBook Forum (now International Digital Publishing Forum, in recognition of the fact that it's not really open). The OEBPS provides a framework for creating a digital publication and specifies the structure of an OEBPS Package File (.opf) which ties all the various pieces of a complete digital publication together and combines them with important metadata. The OEBPS "does _not_ define means for physically bundling files together to make one data transfer object (such as using zip or tar)." (emphasis mine) The OEBFF is a file format proposed by Garth Conboy and John Rivlin, now of eBook Technologies, which uses the Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) to physically (well, conceptually) bundle OEBPS files together into a single file. I believe that the OEBFF is the file format used natively by the eBook Technologies ETI-1 and ETI-2 reading devices. Thus, OEBPS and OEBFF are not competing standards, but are, in fact, complementary technologies: the OEBPS describes one way of defining how multiple files can be combined to create a single digital publication, and the OEBFF describes one way of encapsulating those component files into a single file for subsequent transfer or use. From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Nov 22 08:46:47 2005 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 22 08:47:02 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: beware what technoids with hidden agendas want you to assume Message-ID: <24f.1e6340c.30b4a577@aol.com> lee said: > Rarely is the alphabet alone sufficient to create an e-book. > Usually, to provide the maximum reading experience > a digital publication needs to include markup > suggesting how the text should be presented, and may > include non-textual items, such as illustrations or cover art. > Additionally, it is helpful if a digital publication contains > information _about_ the publication which is > technically not part of the publication itself; > this information is typically referred to as "metadata." > The author's identity, publication date, rights assertions and > even the Gutenberg boilerplate text are all examples of metadata. almost all of this can be contentious. (except the part about illustrations...) enough said. the proof is in the pudding. and, speaking of pudding, happy holidays! -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051122/a3177c9d/attachment.html From nwolcott at dsdial.net Mon Nov 21 14:17:16 2005 From: nwolcott at dsdial.net (N Wolcott) Date: Tue Nov 22 12:26:34 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 Message-ID: <000401c5efa2$e62a4f00$399495ce@gw98> What do we do with Jpeg2000 files to make them into something useful??? Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051121/5062c0a5/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Tue Nov 22 12:31:39 2005 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Tue Nov 22 12:31:47 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 Message-ID: <20051122203139.542A54F42E@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Well, it depends on how you define "useful" ... ie, how do you want to use them? Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Wolcott" To: "'Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion'" Subject: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:17:16 -0500 > > What do we do with Jpeg2000 files to make them into something useful??? > > Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph Tue Nov 22 12:43:57 2005 From: jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph (Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account)) Date: Tue Nov 22 12:39:19 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 In-Reply-To: <000401c5efa2$e62a4f00$399495ce@gw98> References: <000401c5efa2$e62a4f00$399495ce@gw98> Message-ID: <4383830D.1030607@bohol.ph> Norm, Jpeg2000 files are useful. Unfortunately, few people have viewers for them, and even less browsers support them. I would advise to keep them, but until they are more widely supported, use good old JPEG instead.... Yes, I know it is a chicken and egg problem to get this better standard introduced somehow. Jeroen. N Wolcott wrote: >What do we do with Jpeg2000 files to make them into something useful??? > >Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > > From joey at joeysmith.com Tue Nov 22 13:26:46 2005 From: joey at joeysmith.com (joey) Date: Tue Nov 22 13:46:09 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader In-Reply-To: <438341FE.6000806@novomail.net> References: <1e2.48e5c1ce.30b3ca00@aol.com> <438341FE.6000806@novomail.net> Message-ID: <20051122212646.GA10213@joeysmith.com> On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 09:06:22AM -0700, Lee Passey wrote: > Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote: > > The OEBFF is a file format proposed by Garth Conboy and John Rivlin, now > of eBook Technologies, which uses the Multipurpose Internet Mail > Extensions (MIME) to physically (well, conceptually) bundle OEBPS files > together into a single file. I believe that the OEBFF is the file format > used natively by the eBook Technologies ETI-1 and ETI-2 reading devices. > Thus, OEBPS and OEBFF are not competing standards, but are, in fact, > complementary technologies: the OEBPS describes one way of defining how > multiple files can be combined to create a single digital publication, > and the OEBFF describes one way of encapsulating those component files > into a single file for subsequent transfer or use. Anne: One way of describing the differences might be: OEBPS is like saying "Hey! If we need to ship a bunch of stuff, we could put it all in one box and use a delivery service." In contrast, OEBFF is like saying "Hey! I need to ship a bunch of stuff. I'm going to put it in this 12x4x6 cardboard box and ship it using FedEx." (N.B.: I don't know OEBPS or OEBFF, I was just trying to provide a metaphor for what I understood Lee to be saying above.) From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Tue Nov 22 13:53:48 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 22 13:54:01 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <254.1ec4b86.30b4ed6c@aol.com> In a message dated 11/22/2005 9:07:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, lee@novomail.net writes: The OEBFF is a file format proposed by Garth Conboy and John Rivlin, now of eBook Technologies, which uses the Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) to physically (well, conceptually) bundle OEBPS files together into a single file. I believe that the OEBFF is the file format used natively by the eBook Technologies ETI-1 and ETI-2 reading devices. Thus, OEBPS and OEBFF are not competing standards, but are, in fact, complementary technologies: the OEBPS describes one way of defining how multiple files can be combined to create a single digital publication, and the OEBFF describes one way of encapsulating those component files into a single file for subsequent transfer or use. You have made me very happy. My eBookwise Reader reads OEBFF and so does my husband's, which is en route to us now. So apparently we are not going to have to rush out a year from now and replace them. Thanks for the info. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051122/31cfca2c/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Tue Nov 22 14:06:45 2005 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Tue Nov 22 14:06:56 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <20051122220645.B49694F496@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Gutenberg9443@aol.com > > You have made me very happy. My eBookwise Reader reads OEBFF and so does my > husband's, which is en route to us now. So apparently we are not going to have > to rush out a year from now and replace them. > > Thanks for the info. > > Anne Actually, Anne, if you can rush and buy ANY eBook in that format a year from now, I'll be mildly surprised. Not flabbergasted, but surprised. Josh From nwolcott at dsdial.net Tue Nov 22 15:28:08 2005 From: nwolcott at dsdial.net (N Wolcott) Date: Tue Nov 22 15:31:11 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 References: <000401c5efa2$e62a4f00$399495ce@gw98> <4383830D.1030607@bohol.ph> Message-ID: <00d501c5efbc$aff227e0$399495ce@gw98> books downloaded from Brewster Kahle's website are in Jpeg200 format. In order for these to be "useful" to me I have to be able to convert them into tif's or something else useful for PG clearance etc and dp scans Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account)" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 > Norm, > > Jpeg2000 files are useful. Unfortunately, few people have viewers for > them, and even less browsers support them. I would advise to keep them, > but until they are more widely supported, use good old JPEG instead.... > > Yes, I know it is a chicken and egg problem to get this better standard > introduced somehow. > > Jeroen. > > N Wolcott wrote: > > >What do we do with Jpeg2000 files to make them into something useful??? > > > >Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From marcello at perathoner.de Wed Nov 23 07:17:04 2005 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Wed Nov 23 07:17:10 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] More news from the guys that brought us DRM ... Message-ID: <438487F0.6000908@perathoner.de> ... because the consumers are dishonest. "Attorney General Eliot Spitzer today announced the second settlement in the music industry?s "pay-for-play" probe. Warner Music Group Corp., the third largest record company in the United States, has agreed to abandon the industry-wide practice of providing radio stations and their employees with financial incentives and promotional items in exchange for "airplay" for Warner?s recordings. [...] The financial benefits provided in exchange for airplay, also known as "payola," took several forms: ? Direct bribes to radio programmers, including airfare, electronics, tickets to premier sporting events and concerts; ? Payments to radio stations to cover operational expenses; ? Radio contest giveaways for stations' listening audiences, including flyaways, concert tickets, iPods, gift certificates and gift cards; ? Hiring independent promoters to act as conduits for illegal payments to radio stations; ? Purchasing "spin programs" to artificially increase the airplay of particular recordings. The Assurance of Discontinuance summarizing the Attorney General's findings alleges that the illegal payoffs for airplay were designed to manipulate record charts, generate consumer interest in records and increase sales." -- http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/nov/nov22a_05.html In related news, RIAA president Cary Sherman congratulated Warner for its ethical behaviour in agreeing to stop bribing radio stations. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Wed Nov 23 09:25:01 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 23 09:25:14 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <84.52337334.30b5ffed@aol.com> In a message dated 11/22/2005 2:46:16 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, joey@joeysmith.com writes: (N.B.: I don't know OEBPS or OEBFF, I was just trying to provide a metaphor for what I understood Lee to be saying above.) Thank you for the metaphor, which is a good one. All I need to know is that it is useful now and is going to get a lot more useful. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051123/6380c089/attachment.html From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Wed Nov 23 09:37:05 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 23 09:37:17 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <28c.450c9f.30b602c1@aol.com> In a message dated 11/22/2005 3:07:09 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, joshua@hutchinson.net writes: Actually, Anne, if you can rush and buy ANY eBook in that format a year from now, I'll be mildly surprised. Not flabbergasted, but surprised. I buy them very frequently from Fictionwise and eBookwise. eBookwise continues to sell the device. I don't think they're going to quit using that format any time soon. I would tell you I'd let you know next year, but I'll probably forget to do it. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051123/0d6bdea4/attachment-0001.html From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Wed Nov 23 09:53:26 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 23 09:53:42 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: !@!Re: [BP] Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Project Gutenberg Message-ID: <247.1f435a2.30b60696@aol.com> In a message dated 11/22/2005 4:42:07 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, hart@pglaf.org writes: I can only hope there is something WE can do to keep these ideals-- such as they are--alive and thriving so WE can have our own eBooks, or own eLibraries, the way WE want them. Everybody's "gonna" do powerful things but they don't. Meanwhile we could run PGLAF for a hundred years with what they're frittering away. After checking out the Open Library site, I sent it a "nastygram."Their plan is unworkable. Their security is nonexistent. It would take them about a thousand years to save five thousand books the way they save now, and I don't know anybody that can spare six gb for ONE book. Forget the pretty. Most people want the words. Gaaahhh. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051123/8ebd5fc4/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Wed Nov 23 09:53:43 2005 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Wed Nov 23 09:53:49 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <20051123175343.005579E88B@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> I admit to not being an expert in this area, so I could be misunderstanding this. ... but ... It looks like eBookwise uses the .imp format, which is somewhat similar to .oeb format, but isn't quite the same. More of a subset, maybe? (I may be misunderstanding that part) I didn't check the Fictionwise site as closely, so it may be that they support the .oeb format there, though. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Gutenberg9443@aol.com To: gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:37:05 EST > > > In a message dated 11/22/2005 3:07:09 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > joshua@hutchinson.net writes: > > Actually, Anne, if you can rush and buy ANY eBook in that format a year from > now, I'll be mildly surprised. Not flabbergasted, but surprised. > > > > I buy them very frequently from Fictionwise and eBookwise. eBookwise > continues to sell the device. I don't think they're going to quit using that > format > any time soon. I would tell you I'd let you know next year, but I'll > probably forget to do it. > > Anne > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Wed Nov 23 09:56:39 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 23 09:56:49 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] More news from the guys that brought us DRM ... Message-ID: In a message dated 11/23/2005 8:17:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, marcello@perathoner.de writes: >In related news, RIAA president Cary Sherman congratulated Warner for >its ethical behaviour in agreeing to stop bribing radio stations. Ye gods and little fishes. This system was supposed to have stopped back in 1963, when my husband was a radio announcer. (No, this was not T; my husband at that time was Fred; and even Fred wouldn't accept payola.) Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051123/2ffa9599/attachment.html From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Wed Nov 23 10:04:38 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 23 10:04:53 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <26d.59d1b7.30b60936@aol.com> In a message dated 11/23/2005 10:54:03 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, joshua@hutchinson.net writes: It looks like eBookwise uses the .imp format, which is somewhat similar to .oeb format, but isn't quite the same. More of a subset, maybe? (I may be misunderstanding that part) I just got this from the eBookwise site, which sells only books to use on its reader. Fictionwise sells .rbs, which will work on eBook readers. So yes, it is IMP, but it seems to be saying that it is OEBFF and IMP. 4 Reader Ratings: Great Good OK Poor Available eBook Formats [Secure - _What's this?_ (http://www.ebookwise.com/servlet/mw;jsessionid=-QjhwDRmwPCcLqmB23BUrkGQkDY?t=help_eBook-Formats-FAQ&si=43 ) ]: OEBFF Format (IMP) [1.8 MB] All formats: Printing DISABLED, Read-aloud DISABLED Blackmask now calls this format EB-1150. I dunno. All I care about is, can I read this book on equipment I have without having to sit at my desk to do it. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051123/ae017467/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Wed Nov 23 10:35:15 2005 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Wed Nov 23 10:35:22 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Message-ID: <20051123183515.9719F4F547@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> It definitely looks like it is the closest out there to a fully compliant .oeb document type. Perhaps I'm getting caught up on quibbles. *shrug* Well, like I said, I'm no expert. Happy reading, Anne! Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Gutenberg9443@aol.com To: gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] [Press Release] OSoft Partners with OpenReader Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:04:38 EST > > In a message dated 11/23/2005 10:54:03 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > joshua@hutchinson.net writes: > > It looks like eBookwise uses the .imp format, which is somewhat similar to > .oeb format, but isn't quite the same. More of a subset, maybe? (I may be > misunderstanding that part) > I just got this from the eBookwise site, which sells only books to use on > its reader. Fictionwise sells .rbs, which will work on eBook readers. So yes, > it > is IMP, but it seems to be saying that it is OEBFF and IMP. > > > > > > 4 Reader Ratings: Great Good OK Poor > Available eBook Formats [Secure - _What's this?_ > (http://www.ebookwise.com/servlet/mw;jsessionid=-QjhwDRmwPCcLqmB23BUrkGQkDY?t=help_eBook-Formats-FAQ&si=43 > ) ]: OEBFF Format (IMP) [1.8 MB] > All formats: Printing DISABLED, Read-aloud DISABLED > > > > > > > Blackmask now calls this format EB-1150. > > I dunno. All I care about is, can I read this book on equipment I have > without having to sit at my desk to do it. > > Anne > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From prosfilaes at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 13:32:33 2005 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Wed Nov 23 13:32:43 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: !@!Re: [BP] Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Project Gutenberg In-Reply-To: <247.1f435a2.30b60696@aol.com> References: <247.1f435a2.30b60696@aol.com> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0511231332x42dcc6f9o45425ae0b9fef530@mail.gmail.com> On 11/23/05, Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote: > I > don't know anybody that can spare six gb for ONE book. I could, for one book, even now. I remember one critical edition that showed a comma or period in full color blown up 10 times to show that it was actually a broken comma, not a period. I've had times when I've been looking at my own scans and had a hard time telling noise from punctuation. I want a chance to check this without having to have a hardcopy of the book in hand. > Forget the pretty. Most people want the words. If we're here for what most people want, I think we can pretty much retire. I can think of a couple things we're missing, but not in plain text. One of the things I've been missing from PG is scans of line-art pictures in high-enough quality to make reuse possible. Instead of buying a Dover art book, I should be able to dig through the PG archives to find a suitable picture. From jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph Wed Nov 23 14:11:13 2005 From: jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph (Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account)) Date: Wed Nov 23 14:05:55 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 In-Reply-To: <00d501c5efbc$aff227e0$399495ce@gw98> References: <000401c5efa2$e62a4f00$399495ce@gw98> <4383830D.1030607@bohol.ph> <00d501c5efbc$aff227e0$399495ce@gw98> Message-ID: <4384E901.5000401@bohol.ph> Norm, Why not try http://www.irfanview.com/ to get a tool to do this, Jeroen. N Wolcott wrote: >books downloaded from Brewster Kahle's website are in Jpeg200 format. In >order for these to be "useful" to me I have to be able to convert them into >tif's or something else useful for PG clearance etc and dp scans >Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > > >>Norm, >> >>Jpeg2000 files are useful. Unfortunately, few people have viewers for >>them, and even less browsers support them. I would advise to keep them, >>but until they are more widely supported, use good old JPEG instead.... >> >>Yes, I know it is a chicken and egg problem to get this better standard >>introduced somehow. >> >>Jeroen. >> >> From rbutcher at hyenainternet.com Wed Nov 23 23:23:03 2005 From: rbutcher at hyenainternet.com (Rod Butcher) Date: Thu Nov 24 00:23:29 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: gutvol-d Digest, Vol 14, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <20050930160007.23788.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050930160007.23788.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43856A57.2020901@hyenainternet.com> Jonathan Ingram wrote: > --- Rod Butcher wrote: > >>If a work was "first published" in 1848 it seems to meet this rule. But >>what is the status of say a 2002 edition of that work ? Is copyright >>established anew on a reprint ? >>Feedback so far seems to say I need to use pre-1923 editions, but the >>above wording seems ambiguous. > > > It all depends on what the copyright notices at the start of the book say. > Reprints of old works do not get new copyright, but new editions do. > Technically only the new material is copyrighted, but it can sometimes be very > hard to unpick the original material from the revised material. I have some time on my hands so I'm ready for my first contribution.. can I clear up what is the status of a new edition of an old work which does not claim copyright but neither does it state that it is a reprint ? e.g. :- first Published 1848 This editition published 1996 Introduction and notes copyright blah blah. All rights reserved. (?? what rights ?) The new material, i.e. intro & notes are quite legitimately copyrighted. The actual text is ancient history by now.. I could understand if this edition claimed to be a "corrected edition" based on uncovering alternative manuscript sources, but no such claim is made, so to me this might as well be a reprint of the 1848 edition - I can't see how the publisher merely resetting the type entitles it to a new copyright, especially in this age where computerisation makes such a task trivial. thanks Rod This is > particularly annoying for some authors, with wonderful collected editions that > have been 'edited' by someone who gives no indication as to exactly what they > are claiming copyright over. > > If you are lucky, you may find a new edition of a work which only claims > copyright over the illustrations, or a preface. In this case it's easy to > isolate and remove the copyrighted portion of the work. > -- ----------------------------------------------------- From schultzk at uni-trier.de Thu Nov 24 00:36:50 2005 From: schultzk at uni-trier.de (Keith J. Schultz) Date: Thu Nov 24 01:24:42 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: gutvol-d Digest, Vol 14, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <43856A57.2020901@hyenainternet.com> References: <20050930160007.23788.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43856A57.2020901@hyenainternet.com> Message-ID: <262FCB53-6B58-4BE2-8B71-A0D7A8C6FD74@uni-trier.de> Hi There, Actually the 1996 version IS COPYRIGHTED!! But this reffers to this particular BOOK! The 1848 text is not copyrighted. So what does this mean: You cannot use this particular book to create a PG-text! But if you remove layout, just use the 1848 text part and do not state the scan source nobody can prove you violated the 1996 copyright. It is still illegal. The copyright is not on the 1848 text itself, but on the presentation of the text and book itself!! Complicated !? greetings Keith. Am 24.11.2005 um 08:23 schrieb Rod Butcher: > Jonathan Ingram wrote: >> --- Rod Butcher wrote: >>> If a work was "first published" in 1848 it seems to meet this >>> rule. But >>> what is the status of say a 2002 edition of that work ? Is copyright >>> established anew on a reprint ? >>> Feedback so far seems to say I need to use pre-1923 editions, but >>> the >>> above wording seems ambiguous. >> It all depends on what the copyright notices at the start of the >> book say. >> Reprints of old works do not get new copyright, but new editions do. >> Technically only the new material is copyrighted, but it can >> sometimes be very >> hard to unpick the original material from the revised material. > I have some time on my hands so I'm ready for my first > contribution.. can I clear up what is the status of a new edition > of an old work which does not claim copyright but neither does it > state that it is a reprint ? e.g. :- > > first Published 1848 > This editition published 1996 > Introduction and notes copyright blah blah. > All rights reserved. (?? what rights ?) > > The new material, i.e. intro & notes are quite legitimately > copyrighted. > The actual text is ancient history by now.. I could understand if > this edition claimed to be a "corrected edition" based on > uncovering alternative manuscript sources, but no such claim is > made, so to me this might as well be a reprint of the 1848 edition > - I can't see how the publisher merely resetting the type entitles > it to a new copyright, especially in this age where computerisation > makes such a task trivial. > > thanks > Rod > This is >> particularly annoying for some authors, with wonderful collected >> editions that >> have been 'edited' by someone who gives no indication as to >> exactly what they >> are claiming copyright over. >> If you are lucky, you may find a new edition of a work which only >> claims >> copyright over the illustrations, or a preface. In this case it's >> easy to >> isolate and remove the copyrighted portion of the work. > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From jon.ingram at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 02:15:00 2005 From: jon.ingram at gmail.com (Jon Ingram) Date: Thu Nov 24 02:15:22 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: gutvol-d Digest, Vol 14, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <262FCB53-6B58-4BE2-8B71-A0D7A8C6FD74@uni-trier.de> References: <20050930160007.23788.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43856A57.2020901@hyenainternet.com> <262FCB53-6B58-4BE2-8B71-A0D7A8C6FD74@uni-trier.de> Message-ID: <4baf53720511240215gd702fb8q4384b763c9b3b94a@mail.gmail.com> On 11/24/05, Keith J. Schultz wrote: > Actually the 1996 version IS COPYRIGHTED!! > But this reffers to this particular BOOK! > The 1848 text is not copyrighted. > > Am 24.11.2005 um 08:23 schrieb Rod Butcher: > > first Published 1848 > > This editition published 1996 > > Introduction and notes copyright blah blah. > > All rights reserved. (?? what rights ?) Keith, that's only true in the EU, the individual members of which tend to have typographical copyright periods (it's 25 years in the UK, for example). In the USA, resetting the material doesn't get you a new copyright. As they have only claimed copyright over the introduction and notes, the main text is copyright free, and can legitimately be scanned and used to create a PG text. -- Jon Ingram From sly at victoria.tc.ca Thu Nov 24 11:44:36 2005 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Thu Nov 24 11:44:45 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: gutvol-d Digest, Vol 14, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <43856A57.2020901@hyenainternet.com> References: <20050930160007.23788.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43856A57.2020901@hyenainternet.com> Message-ID: Questions like this come up on this mailing list every once in a while. Asking about copyright status on this mailing list will often only get you speculative, hypothetical answers. The only way to know for sure if you can consider a particular item to be ok to use for PG purposes is to submit the TP&V for copyright clearance. See: http://www.gutenberg.org/faq/V-37 As I see it, there are at least three things that contribute to the complexity of and misunderstanding of copyright laws. 1) Copyright is not just one "right", it is actually a bundle of related rights. (The right to copy, to distribute, to make derivative works, etc.) 2) Copyright laws are often affected by many different pieces of legislation. 3) Copyrights are dealt with on a national basis, that is the details vary in every country. Andrew On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Rod Butcher wrote: > Jonathan Ingram wrote: > > --- Rod Butcher wrote: > > > >>If a work was "first published" in 1848 it seems to meet this rule. But > >>what is the status of say a 2002 edition of that work ? Is copyright > >>established anew on a reprint ? > >>Feedback so far seems to say I need to use pre-1923 editions, but the > >>above wording seems ambiguous. > > > > > > It all depends on what the copyright notices at the start of the book say. > > Reprints of old works do not get new copyright, but new editions do. > > Technically only the new material is copyrighted, but it can sometimes be very > > hard to unpick the original material from the revised material. > I have some time on my hands so I'm ready for my first contribution.. > can I clear up what is the status of a new edition of an old work which > does not claim copyright but neither does it state that it is a reprint > ? e.g. :- > > first Published 1848 > This editition published 1996 > Introduction and notes copyright blah blah. > All rights reserved. (?? what rights ?) > > The new material, i.e. intro & notes are quite legitimately copyrighted. > The actual text is ancient history by now.. I could understand if this > edition claimed to be a "corrected edition" based on uncovering > alternative manuscript sources, but no such claim is made, so to me this > might as well be a reprint of the 1848 edition - I can't see how the > publisher merely resetting the type entitles it to a new copyright, > especially in this age where computerisation makes such a task trivial. > > thanks > Rod > This is > > particularly annoying for some authors, with wonderful collected editions that > > have been 'edited' by someone who gives no indication as to exactly what they > > are claiming copyright over. > > > > If you are lucky, you may find a new edition of a work which only claims > > copyright over the illustrations, or a preface. In this case it's easy to > > isolate and remove the copyrighted portion of the work. > > > > From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Thu Nov 24 17:58:08 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 24 17:58:26 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: !@!Re: [BP] Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Project ... Message-ID: <1e.525d936b.30b7c9b0@aol.com> In a message dated 11/23/2005 2:32:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, prosfilaes@gmail.com writes: >>I could, for one book, even now. I remember one critical edition that >>showed a comma or period in full color blown up 10 times to show that >>it was actually a broken comma, not a period. I've had times when I've >>been looking at my own scans and had a hard time telling noise from >>punctuation. I want a chance to check this without having to have a >>hardcopy of the book in hand. Obviously you have specialized needs. I have no objection to their posting full page scans; I just want them to have been OCRed and put into one file as well. As my vision continues to deteriorate, I often have trouble telling noise from punctuation even on my own manuscripts. Sometimes I enlarge the type font considerably so that I can see what I'm doing. Since finally deciding that I didn't want to write my book about Jungian archetypes in GRAVITY'S RAINBOW or my book on Kipling's use of the supernatural, I no longer consider myself a scholar. The irony in this is that I got my doctorate so that I would have alphabet soup to put after my name when I published my Kipling book. > Forget the pretty. Most people want the words. >>If we're here for what most people want, I think we can pretty much >>retire. I can think of a couple things we're missing, but not in plain >>text. I correct myself. "Most people" doesn't make sense in this context. Most people who love to read want the words. I would love to be able to be a bibliophile in terms of collecting rare editions and first editions, and for a while I was; but severe illness complicated by subsequent poverty made it necessary for me to take my beloved antique books to Sam Weller and get however much money I could for them. Parting with my two-volume eighteenth-century edition of Charles Churchill's complete poems just about broke my heart, but not being able to take my children to the doctor would have broken my heart a whole lot more. BTW, the paper was still completely white and strong though the books were over two hundred years old. I asked Tony Weller the reason for this, and he said that it was made of hemp, and hemp paper is extremely strong and long-lasting but is illegal in the United States. So we cut down trees and make paper that's going to turn yellow in ten years and crumble in twenty-five years, instead of using an annual crop of hemp because SOMEBODY MIGHT WANT TO SMOKE THE PAGES OR THE WASTE, OR PUT IT IN BROWNIES! Duhhh. This is about as un-self-serving as anything I ever said: I'm one-sixth owner of a tree farm in Louisiana. Don't blame me; my grandfather bought it. I like the occasional income it brings in, but I like breathing a lot better. (If you've been living in Mars for the last fifty years, you might not know that marijuana is a form of hemp or vice versa; I'm not exactly sure) One of the things I've been missing from PG is scans of line-art pictures in high-enough quality to make reuse possible. Instead of buying a Dover art book, I should be able to dig through the PG archives to find a suitable picture. With this I agree. In fact, I think it would be an excellent idea for us to scan good line art AND black and white etchings in anything we know is out of copyright. Since the author and the illustrator don't necessarily die at the same time, we might have to begin by scanning just pre-1923 work, but even that would be a good start. I too am frustrated by the necessity to go to Dover or run around hunting illustrations, after having bought three good and expensive collections of copyright-free art. I know what is going to be said now. If I want it, do it. Okay, guys, send them to me. I'll put them on my computer until somebody tells me who to send them to for posting. But I don't have room to store more than 5 GB at a time, and that's pushing my luck. If someone wants to ship me an external hard drive with umpty thousand GB to be used just for PGLAF and sent to somebody else at PGLAF when I bite the dust, I'll archive them here even after they're posted. Why do I suspect I'm going to wish I hadn't said that? Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051124/2599e78c/attachment.html From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Thu Nov 24 18:07:48 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 24 18:08:05 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Line art (was Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Project ...) Message-ID: <24b.210264c.30b7cbf4@aol.com> PS-- If that bird guy has any line art to send me, he should send it to someone else to have it forwarded to me. For some reason his mail isn't reaching me anymore. And please--everybody--document! Source, bibliographic data, date, author, illustrator if available! Get it as close to 510 X 680 pixels as you can, in .jpg, .gif, or .bmp. I'm not set up to deal with any other format. If it's not documented I'm not going to give it to anybody to post and I'm not going to use it myself. Stuff you BOUGHT from Dover is okay. Dover, to the best of my knowledge, does nothing that is not out of copyright. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051124/478b68b9/attachment.html From prosfilaes at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 04:42:53 2005 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Fri Nov 25 04:43:21 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Line art (was Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Project ...) In-Reply-To: <24b.210264c.30b7cbf4@aol.com> References: <24b.210264c.30b7cbf4@aol.com> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0511250442h642367dy4ef6809e5301951d@mail.gmail.com> On 11/24/05, Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote: > Stuff you BOUGHT from Dover is okay. Dover, to the best of my knowledge, > does nothing that is not out of copyright. That's not true. Much of Dover's material is original, reprints of material still under copyright, or reworking of public domain material until the copyrighted material is hard to seperate from the public domain (the clip art books are a good example of this; they have a compilation copyright, and I suspect they've done enough cropping and cleaning on the art to claim a copyright on the pieces in many cases). From hart at pglaf.org Fri Nov 25 08:37:09 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Fri Nov 25 08:37:11 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Line art (was Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Project ...) In-Reply-To: <6d99d1fd0511250442h642367dy4ef6809e5301951d@mail.gmail.com> References: <24b.210264c.30b7cbf4@aol.com> <6d99d1fd0511250442h642367dy4ef6809e5301951d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, David Starner wrote: > On 11/24/05, Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote: >> Stuff you BOUGHT from Dover is okay. Dover, to the best of my knowledge, >> does nothing that is not out of copyright. > > That's not true. Much of Dover's material is original, reprints of > material still under copyright, or reworking of public domain material > until the copyrighted material is hard to seperate from the public > domain (the clip art books are a good example of this; they have a > compilation copyright, and I suspect they've done enough cropping and > cleaning on the art to claim a copyright on the pieces in many cases). Dover is very good about not claiming copyright for most of their books, so I would simply bypass Mr. Starner's blatant "That's not true," for an opportunity to ask them yourself. * As for doing "enough cropping and cleaning on the art to claim a copyright on the pieces in many cases," The U.S. courts ruled that any attempt to accurately depict public domain works remains in the public domain. "The point of the exercise was to reproduce the underlying works with absolute fidelity. Copyright is not available in these circumstances." To read the complete court decision: See Bridgeman Art Library v Corel Corp 36 F. Supp. 2d 191 (S.D.N.Y. 1999) This decision demonstrated that the efforts of museum curators, etc., to monopolize the reproduction of posters, books, postcards, et. al., of public domain paintings, lithographs, drawings, and two dimensional artwork in general were NOT supported by copyright law, and there was no intellectual input into the content, merely accurate reproduction. As for compilation copyright, one could copyright nearly any collected works project, even if the works were all in the public domain, if one could prove intellectual input into the selection process. However, a complete works cannot be copyrighted, as such, but would need addition in other areas to be copyrightable. I don't know if Mr. Starner resides in the U.S., so I don't know if these are the laws that would apply in his specific instance. Michael From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Fri Nov 25 10:13:47 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 25 10:13:58 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Line art (was Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Projec... Message-ID: <2bb.891d08.30b8ae5b@aol.com> In a message dated 11/25/2005 5:43:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, prosfilaes@gmail.com writes: That's not true. Much of Dover's material is original, reprints of material still under copyright, or reworking of public domain material until the copyrighted material is hard to seperate from the public domain (the clip art books are a good example of this; they have a compilation copyright, and I suspect they've done enough cropping and cleaning on the art to claim a copyright on the pieces in many cases). Thanks for the clarification. Okay, we CAN'T use Dover. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051125/cc5011be/attachment.html From Gutenberg9443 at aol.com Fri Nov 25 14:01:46 2005 From: Gutenberg9443 at aol.com (Gutenberg9443@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 25 14:02:03 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: gutvol-d Digest, Vol 14, Issue 64 Message-ID: <155.5d3e8744.30b8e3ca@aol.com> In a message dated 11/24/2005 12:45:01 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, sly@victoria.tc.ca writes: Asking about copyright status on this mailing list will often only get you speculative, hypothetical answers. The only way to know for sure if you can consider a particular item to be ok to use for PG purposes is to submit the TP&V for copyright clearance. After reading this discussion I realized that I am inadvertently creating confusion for future people. When I put one of my own books up on Fictionwise for sale, I give the original copyright date and "this edition copyright 2005 by Anne Wingate). But in all but one case, it's not just a new copyright on old material. In all but one case I rewrote quite extensively, and was quite surprised to find that I didn't have to rewrite THE EYE OF ANNA. So I'm going to change that practice at once, and arrange to have all the already-posted books' copyright info changed. Thanks, guys, for the warning. BTW, be aware that T. H. White extensively rewrote THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING at least six times to my knowledge, and all six editions are available in very large libraries. I did a textual analysis of it in grad school and found it extremely confusing.. That probably isn't a world's record for rewriting several long books over and over, but I've never seen one more often rewritten. At one point he actually inserted that idiotic magic combat with Madame Mim from the Disney version. Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20051125/ee4ac183/attachment.html From prosfilaes at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 14:20:52 2005 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Fri Nov 25 14:21:24 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Line art (was Google Print vs. The Open Library vs. Project ...) In-Reply-To: References: <24b.210264c.30b7cbf4@aol.com> <6d99d1fd0511250442h642367dy4ef6809e5301951d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0511251420i59266b83m207a84afa09ba1@mail.gmail.com> On 11/25/05, Michael Hart wrote: > Dover is very good about not claiming copyright for most of their books, > so I would simply bypass Mr. Starner's blatant "That's not true," for an > opportunity to ask them yourself. That's completely non sequitor. It is not true that all of Dover's books are out of copyright; I don't even know that most of their books are, given the number of compilation copyrights and outright new material they have. > As for doing "enough cropping and cleaning on the art to claim a copyright > on the pieces in many cases," The U.S. courts ruled that any attempt > to accurately depict public domain works remains in the public domain. Any attempt to _accurately depict_ a public domain work is in the public domain. But creatively using a public domain work to produce a new work does give you a copyright. If you take a public domain work, and you selectively cut out pieces of the picture, you get a new copyright. If you want to argue that simply trimming away the image away from the main subject wouldn't get a new copyright, that's arguable, but certainly not covered by Bridgeman Art Library v Corel. From jmdyck at ibiblio.org Fri Nov 25 16:10:17 2005 From: jmdyck at ibiblio.org (Michael Dyck) Date: Fri Nov 25 16:10:39 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] "iridium asteroid" References: Message-ID: <4387A7E9.A85F5576@ibiblio.org> In PT1a Weekly Project Gutenberg Newsletter, Michael Hart wrote: > > Even a tiny gold, platinum, or iridium asteroid under 100 feet > in diameter could destroy the world's economic system, ... > > Think such asteroids don't exist? > > Just ask any dinosaur expert what wiped out those dinosaurs. > > It was an iridium asteroid, and a lot bigger than 100 feet. No, it wasn't "an iridium asteroid". It was an asteroid with about the average concentration of iridium for bodies in the solar system, which is to say, in parts per billion. The notable thing is that on Earth, most of the iridium is concentrated in the core; in the crust, iridium is (even) rarer than the solar system average. Thus, when a 10km asteroid of average iridium concentration slams into the Yucatan peninsula, you get a thin layer of rock (all over the world) that is "rich" in iridium, relative to the surrounding rock. But it's still just parts per billion. -Michael From jmdyck at ibiblio.org Fri Nov 25 15:25:37 2005 From: jmdyck at ibiblio.org (Michael Dyck) Date: Fri Nov 25 16:26:36 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] "iridium asteroid" References: Message-ID: <43879D71.665CDC98@ibiblio.org> In PT1a Weekly Project Gutenberg Newsletter, Michael Hart wrote: > > Even a tiny gold, platinum, or iridium asteroid under 100 feet > in diameter could destroy the world's economic system, because > in spacefaring terms, our finanical institutions are based on, > still to this day, "beads and trinkets" that could still buy a > Manhattan Island for $24 worth of such beads and trickets from > the perspective of any spacefaring race that could simply pull > such an asteroid out of orbit and give it to us for Manhattan. > > Think such asteroids don't exist? > > Just ask any dinosaur expert what wiped out those dinosaurs. > > It was an iridium asteroid, and a lot bigger than 100 feet. No, it wasn't "an iridium asteroid". It was an asteroid with about the average concentration of iridium for bodies in the solar system, which is to say, in parts per billion. The notable thing is that on Earth, most of the iridium is concentrated in the core; in the crust, iridium is (even) rarer than the solar system average. Thus, when a 10km asteroid of average iridium concentration slams into the Yucatan peninsula, you get a thin layer of rock (all over the world) that is "rich" in iridium, relative to the surrounding rock. But it's still just parts per billion. -Michael From nwolcott at dsdial.net Fri Nov 25 11:13:09 2005 From: nwolcott at dsdial.net (N Wolcott) Date: Sun Nov 27 09:02:57 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 References: <000401c5efa2$e62a4f00$399495ce@gw98> <4383830D.1030607@bohol.ph><00d501c5efbc$aff227e0$399495ce@gw98> <4384E901.5000401@bohol.ph> Message-ID: <000201c5f374$418ad2a0$cd9495ce@gw98> Thanks. I had it, just never installed it. Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account)" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Jpeg2000 > > Norm, > > Why not try http://www.irfanview.com/ to get a tool to do this, > > Jeroen. > > N Wolcott wrote: > > >books downloaded from Brewster Kahle's website are in Jpeg200 format. In > >order for these to be "useful" to me I have to be able to convert them into > >tif's or something else useful for PG clearance etc and dp scans > >Norm Wolcott nwolcott2@post.harvard.edu > > > > > >>Norm, > >> > >>Jpeg2000 files are useful. Unfortunately, few people have viewers for > >>them, and even less browsers support them. I would advise to keep them, > >>but until they are more widely supported, use good old JPEG instead.... > >> > >>Yes, I know it is a chicken and egg problem to get this better standard > >>introduced somehow. > >> > >>Jeroen. > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From hart at pglaf.org Sun Nov 27 10:40:52 2005 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Sun Nov 27 10:40:54 2005 Subject: [gutvol-d] "iridium asteroid" In-Reply-To: <43879D71.665CDC98@ibiblio.org> References: <43879D71.665CDC98@ibiblio.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, Michael Dyck wrote: > In PT1a Weekly Project Gutenberg Newsletter, Michael Hart wrote: >> >> Even a tiny gold, platinum, or iridium asteroid under 100 feet >> in diameter could destroy the world's economic system, because >> in spacefaring terms, our finanical institutions are based on, >> still to this day, "beads and trinkets" that could still buy a >> Manhattan Island for $24 worth of such beads and trickets from >> the perspective of any spacefaring race that could simply pull >> such an asteroid out of orbit and give it to us for Manhattan. >> >> Think such asteroids don't exist? >> >> Just ask any dinosaur expert what wiped out those dinosaurs. >> >> It was an iridium asteroid, and a lot bigger than 100 feet. > > No, it wasn't "an iridium asteroid". It was an asteroid with about > the average concentration of iridium for bodies in the solar system, > which is to say, in parts per billion. > > The notable thing is that on Earth, most of the iridium is concentrated > in the core; in the crust, iridium is (even) rarer than the solar system > average. Thus, when a 10km asteroid of average iridium concentration > slams into the Yucatan peninsula, you get a thin layer of rock (all over > the world) that is "rich" in iridium, relative to the surrounding rock. > But it's still just parts per billion. As I undertood it from the UI Geology Dept., virtually all the iridium on earth came from that one single impact. Michael