From j.hagerson at comcast.net Sat Apr 1 20:12:55 2006 From: j.hagerson at comcast.net (John Hagerson) Date: Sat Apr 1 20:18:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Cost of 1TB Storage Message-ID: <00b901c6560b$bb06eca0$0300a8c0@sarek> Fry's Electronics is offering an Anthology Solutions 1TB solution for $649.99 through Tuesday, 4 April. Limit one per customer. I have this information from a newspaper advertisement. I checked http://www.outpost.com for the same item (SKU 4633698). They are listed for $699.99. "Call for availability." From greg at durendal.org Sun Apr 2 07:10:43 2006 From: greg at durendal.org (Greg Weeks) Date: Sun Apr 2 07:30:03 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Cost of 1TB Storage In-Reply-To: <00b901c6560b$bb06eca0$0300a8c0@sarek> References: <00b901c6560b$bb06eca0$0300a8c0@sarek> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Apr 2006, John Hagerson wrote: > Fry's Electronics is offering an Anthology Solutions 1TB solution for > $649.99 through Tuesday, 4 April. Limit one per customer. I have this > information from a newspaper advertisement. > > I checked http://www.outpost.com for the same item (SKU 4633698). They are > listed for $699.99. "Call for availability." I think we paid about $1500 for our 1.6TB unit at work. The drives weren't that much of the cost. It a cluster server with multiple SCSI and GigE connectors, dual power supply and dual battery backups. We actually had it filled Friday morning. By Friday afternoon it was back to it's normal 1/3 full. -- Greg Weeks http://durendal.org:8080/greg/ From hart at pglaf.org Sun Apr 2 09:51:03 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Sun Apr 2 09:51:05 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Cost of 1TB Storage In-Reply-To: References: <00b901c6560b$bb06eca0$0300a8c0@sarek> Message-ID: Of course, if you are willing to simply buy 4 @ 250G drives for $99 each, and put them in a less sophisticated box than previously mentioned, these new terebytes can be added for ~$450 rather than the $649-$699 mentioned. Add another $50 each time you want to add a serious feature. However you want to count it, though, if you have been considering buying a terabyte, the time is obviously coming when there will quite many wider and wider ranges of selections, and you will likely see terabytes sold at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc., for under $500 by next year's holidays. mh From tb at baechler.net Mon Apr 3 00:50:14 2006 From: tb at baechler.net (Tony Baechler) Date: Mon Apr 3 00:49:15 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Cost of 1TB Storage In-Reply-To: References: <00b901c6560b$bb06eca0$0300a8c0@sarek> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060403004740.02b904d0@baechler.net> Hi, Fred Langa has had an article posted on building a 1 TB storage system for about $500. I haven't read the article but it's probably Windows-centric. I can recommend Fred's column for Windows users. He has been around a long time and generally knows what he's talking about. I don't have the full link to the article but you can find it from his main site. http://www.langa.com/ You'll probably have to read the past issue or two of his column to find the exact link. It's on informationweek.com. From maitriv at yahoo.com Mon Apr 3 12:35:03 2006 From: maitriv at yahoo.com (maitri venkat-ramani) Date: Mon Apr 3 12:41:45 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Interview With Leader of Sweden's Pirate Party In-Reply-To: <84949479.20050904091334@noring.name> Message-ID: <20060403193503.67294.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> Pirates ... arrrrrrr!!! >From /. http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/04/03/1048254.shtml Posted by Hemos on Monday April 03, @10:00AM CrystalFalcon writes "Linux-P2P has published an interview with Rick Falkvinge, leader of the Swedish Pirate Party which is aiming to gain entry to Swedish Parliament this fall. (The party's founding was previously covered on Slashdot.) The party is totally for real, totally serious, and has seen approval ratings of 57% in some polls, with only four percent needed to gain seats. Its goals are to cut back copyrights, abolish patents, and strengthen the right to privacy." === Swedish Filesharers Start 'The Piracy Party' Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Jan 03, '06 01:19 PM sp3tt writes "Tired of being called criminals, a group of Swedish filesharers have started a new political party, The Piracy Party (Piratpartiet in Swedish). The party wants to abolish all intellectual property laws, reverse the data retention directive passed by the EU last month, and protect privacy with new laws. The party expresses no opinion on other subjects. The Piracy Party's webpage is so far only available in Swedish, at piratpartiet.se The party's goal is to get into to the parliament, which requires 4% of the votes, or roughly 225000 votes. Elections are held in September." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From maitriv at yahoo.com Mon Apr 3 12:36:39 2006 From: maitriv at yahoo.com (maitri venkat-ramani) Date: Mon Apr 3 12:43:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Interview With Leader of Sweden's Pirate Party Message-ID: <20060403193639.12274.qmail@web52311.mail.yahoo.com> Ahem, here's the interview itself: http://www.linuxp2p.com/forums/portal.php?article=0 On Jan 1, 2006, Rick Falkvinge founded the Pirate Party in Sweden, beginning a new era in the fight for legitimacy of P2P. Rick was tired of the MPA/IFPI lobbyers and politicians who would not listen to reason, so he resorted to taking to the streets in a battle for voters in this fall's general elections. LinuxP2P: How did you guys come up with the idea of creating a whole new political party for file-sharing and privacy? Falkvinge: Basically, because the politicians didn't listen to their voters, but to yesterday's industry interests instead, which led them to criminalize 20% of their voters (1.2 million file sharers, 5.2 million voters). There have been many good writers on the issues, which the politicians have chosen to ignore. So we figured the only way to get their attention was to go head-on in a battle for voters. LinuxP2P: What are your main goals? Falkvinge: To stir a debate about the hidden costs of copyright and patents, and to stop the big-brother society trend. This needs to be done on a European level; we view Sweden as a beachhead in this aspect. You gotta start somewhere. LinuxP2P: How do you intend to reform the copyright laws in Sweden? Falkvinge: Our goal is to reduce copyright substantially in both coverage and time. First of all, when copyright was created, there was no such thing as noncommercial copying. We want to bring it back to cover copying on commercial grounds only -- the copyright monopoly will not cover noncommercial activities at all, nor does it cover anything else than the original exact copy. For example, you would be free to sample from a piece of music and release it as a new work. Second, the protection term today is ludicrous. Copyright is a monopoly given to the creator as an incentive to create more culture. So why, then, does the monopoly last seventy years after the creator's own death? He or she is very unlikely to create more culture after his or her own demise. If you look at the industry, any investment made is usually calculated to have paid itself within a few years, say five years. We believe this is a reasonable term. That would mean that any music, movie, etc, would have five years of monopolized sales under copyright before it becomes a free-for-all, which is more than sufficient to regain any investment. Overall, today's copyright does not strike a balance between the creator's interest in regaining an investment on one hand, and society's interest in creation of culture on the other. The law is totally one-sided towards the creator's interests, preventing the spread of culture. LinuxP2P: Will you try to get the EU's software patent directive and their data retention laws to be annulled in Sweden? Falkvinge: The software patent directive was, thankfully, not passed. The data retention directive will not be implemented in Sweden if we get our way. LinuxP2P: What is your position on DRM? Falkvinge: That it should be prohibited outright. DRM is effectively media companies writing their own copyright laws, harming society and consumers. We have a parliament to write such laws, thank you very much. The equivalent would be if someone sold you a product that shut down on purpose in daylight, or outside of a particular city, or under whatever condition the manufacturer hadn't approved. We call it fraud in the cases where we can relate, so I can't believe the media industry is getting away with this. Apart from that, there have been numerous horror stories about DRM abuse. Starforce and XCP come to mind. LinuxP2P: How, if at all, will your changes in Sweden's copyright laws affect Free/Open Source Software? Falkvinge: The changes to copyright laws might not affect FOSS, but there are other provisions of our platform that will. Specifically, we will require the public sector - which is quite large in Sweden, and spends quite some money - to purchase systems in a way that does not "promote the formation or continuation of monopolies on ideas and concepts". This translates to more or less requiring FOSS, or at least more open systems than are common today. LinuxP2P: The French are proposing to implement a monthly fee to Internet subscribers that gives them the right to download music freely, but they will also impose high financial sanctions for those caught uploading. What are your opinions on this? Falkvinge: If they can't file share, what are they paying the fee for? Actually, I think this system is worse than today's system. We'd have a system where the media companies would receive a flat fee and determine what was available for download for that fee. The ink wouldn't be dry on the law before the media companies removed the newest content from download availability and put it back on the shelf, and with a fresh new revenue stream to combat piracy, we'd all be worse off. LinuxP2P: Patents provide a huge financial incentive for inventors and researchers. Won't abolishing them effectively stop innovation? Falkvinge: This is a myth. Patents today are a honeypot for inventors and researchers. However, one you've paid the ?50,000 to take part in the European patent lottery, you will find that the war chest of the multinational companies is much larger than yours, and they will effectively crush the inventor like a bug. In short, the story about striking it rich on a patent is a fairy tale. There are way too many interests out there who don't want you to get rich on that patent, and they make very sure you won't be. Besides, take a look at the high-tech gadgets around you today. Mobile phones, for example. New models are invented because people are buying the latest high-tech -- not because the inventing company can patent it. Put simply, a company that didn't spend a lot of money on innovation would quickly be out of business today. That is a much stronger incentive than being able to patent something: if you don't invent, you're dead. In such an environment, patent lawyers draw valuable resources from R&D instead of contributing to the economy. LinuxP2P: What kind of relationship do you have with the torrent tracker ThePirateBay which also operates in Sweden? Falkvinge: Some of the people in the Pirate Party have met with some of the people in the Pirate Bay. They were started independently of one another and are not formally connected, but the people involved have enjoyed the occasional beer when we meet. LinuxP2P: Apart from working to improve privacy rights and legalise file sharing, what are PiratPartiet's other goals, if you have any? Falkvinge: We have three goals: reform copyright, abolish patents, and strengthen the right to privacy. Nothing else. LinuxP2P: Do you support all piracy, such as street traders selling knock-off DVDs and even pirate cinemas? Falkvinge: We don't. We believe that copyright is unbalanced today. However, shifting it as far as selling knock-off DVDs - effectively abolishing copyright - would remove the creator's financial interest from the equation altogether. The law is about striking a balance between the creator's financial interest and society's interest of culture spread. You might want to note, though, that once the copyright has expired after five years, such activity would be totally legit. It would be no different from printing a really old book today. LinuxP2P: If file sharing was suddenly and publicly fully legalized, wouldn't everyone switch entirely to file sharing, undoing any good file sharing may do for CD and ticket sales? Falkvinge: That's exactly what the music industry said about the cassette tape, too. LinuxP2P.com appreciates Mr. Falkvinge taking the the time to participate in this interview, and wish him and his party good luck at the election. --- maitri venkat-ramani wrote: > Pirates ... arrrrrrr!!! > > From /. > http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/04/03/1048254.shtml > Posted by Hemos on Monday April 03, @10:00AM > > CrystalFalcon writes "Linux-P2P has published an interview with Rick > Falkvinge, leader of the Swedish Pirate Party which is aiming to gain > entry to Swedish Parliament this fall. (The party's founding was > previously covered on Slashdot.) The party is totally for real, > totally > serious, and has seen approval ratings of 57% in some polls, with > only > four percent needed to gain seats. Its goals are to cut back > copyrights, abolish patents, and strengthen the right to privacy." > > === > > Swedish Filesharers Start 'The Piracy Party' > Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Jan 03, '06 01:19 PM > > sp3tt writes "Tired of being called criminals, a group of Swedish > filesharers have started a new political party, The Piracy Party > (Piratpartiet in Swedish). The party wants to abolish all > intellectual > property laws, reverse the data retention directive passed by the EU > last month, and protect privacy with new laws. The party expresses no > opinion on other subjects. The Piracy Party's webpage is so far only > available in Swedish, at piratpartiet.se The party's goal is to get > into to the parliament, which requires 4% of the votes, or roughly > 225000 votes. Elections are held in September." > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Apr 4 12:55:48 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 4 12:55:53 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] pdf production Message-ID: <293.8b07a1c.31642944@aol.com> i'm chasing down the last few details concerning production of quality .pdf from project gutenberg e-texts... (links, bookmarks, and annotations, in case anyone was wondering what might comprise "the last few details".) so i will soon finish the .pdf aspect... but i'm not sure i want to unleash this capability out into the wild for free... first, i've never been too fond of .pdf, not just for its technical flaws (which can be surmounted), but also because adobe strikes me as awfully predatory. compounding that these days is _sony_, which will be releasing a reader-machine (which uses e-ink) in the next few months, one with major support for the .pdf format. i don't care to provide sony a tool that will enable them to scarf much of the p.g. library to prop up their machine, not when p.g. itself ignores the .pdf... wholesale conversion of unformatted p.g. e-texts into quality .pdf e-books available only through the sony store is not something that i want to foster. so i'll probably hobble the capability, so it cannot be used in a "production" type of environment -- most likely by refusing to make more than one .pdf every 4 hours. unless someone can suggest a better way to handle this? i'm wide open for feedback, backchannel if you prefer... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060404/da67a03e/attachment.html From holden.mcgroin at dsl.pipex.com Tue Apr 4 15:37:01 2006 From: holden.mcgroin at dsl.pipex.com (Holden McGroin) Date: Tue Apr 4 15:37:08 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] pdf production In-Reply-To: <293.8b07a1c.31642944@aol.com> References: <293.8b07a1c.31642944@aol.com> Message-ID: <1144190222.17647.13.camel@steve-mcqueen> On Tue, 2006-04-04 at 15:55 -0400, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > first, i've never been too fond of .pdf, > not just for its technical flaws (which > can be surmounted), but also because > adobe strikes me as awfully predatory. This may have been a problem in the past but I don't see it anymore. Anybody can make an application for viewing PDFs without having to ask permission from, or pay royalties to, Adobe and the format has been standardised by ISO. So, I think it's not necessary to be afraid of Adobe as a predator in this instance. > compounding that these days is _sony_, > which will be releasing a reader-machine > (which uses e-ink) in the next few months, > one with major support for the .pdf format. This is a good think, isn't it? > i don't care to provide sony a tool that > will enable them to scarf much of the > p.g. library to prop up their machine, > not when p.g. itself ignores the .pdf... > > wholesale conversion of unformatted > p.g. e-texts into quality .pdf e-books > available only through the sony store > is not something that i want to foster. > > so i'll probably hobble the capability, > so it cannot be used in a "production" > type of environment -- most likely by > refusing to make more than one .pdf > every 4 hours. unless someone can > suggest a better way to handle this? First of all, the books we're dealing with here are public domain. If Sony wanted to raid PG's library, then I'm sure it would and I doubt that any volunteers would have a problem with that, given PG's stated goals. If you're worried about your tool being used to create PDFs which will only be available through Sony's store, why not just create the PDFs yourself and add them to PG? That way, people will always have a free avenue if they want. I went through much the same kind of thought process a few days ago when I found a book which I'd contributed to PG being sold as a Trade Paperback complete with an ISBN number. I must admit, I had some uncertain feelings initially, but then I came to the realisation that this is what the public domain is all about. It's about competition. I worked on that book with no expectation of getting money for it. I did so because I thought the book was worthy and because PG was worthy. It makes no difference to me if somebody then goes on to sell the book. Clearly anybody who bought a copy from that vendor either didn't know about PG or were just willing to pay money to get a physical copy of the book. So, returning to the point at hand, the tool you're creating is yours and you're entitled to do whatever you like with it. However, the world will be a better place if you don't hobble it and give PG some lovely PDFs into the bargain. I'll thank you for it. Cheers, Holden From joey at joeysmith.com Tue Apr 4 17:11:59 2006 From: joey at joeysmith.com (joey) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:13:42 2006 Subject: File formats and the website (was Re: [gutvol-d] another dose of reality) In-Reply-To: <1628983256.20060329134820@noring.name> References: <008201c6534c$1e830240$6755fea9@Corp.Symantec.Com> <442ABF0E.6000607@perathoner.de> <20060329184422.GA30671@joeysmith.com> <442AF08D.5000702@perathoner.de> <1628983256.20060329134820@noring.name> Message-ID: <20060405001159.GA5761@joeysmith.com> On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 01:48:20PM -0700, Jon Noring wrote: > Marcello wrote: > > joey wrote: > > >> How about linking to wikipedia for those we don't have descriptions for? > >> If that's something we're interested in, I'd even be willing to take a > >> stab at creating new Wikipedia entries for those that don't exist in either > >> location. > > > What we need is a short description like those you find here: > > > > http://www.gutenberg.org/help/bibrec#format > > > > The average Wikipedia entry is too complex for people who just want to > > know which format to download. > > Well, whoever writes the short descriptions can link to Wikipedia > articles describing the media types in more detail, and for those > where there's no Wikipedia description, to write them. > > But I agree with Marcello the first step is to write the short > descriptions. > > Jon I sent a second attempt at "short descriptions", but as far as I can tell, no one has commented on it. I'm assuming that silence means it's unacceptable, so unless someone has specific feedback on how I can improve it, I'll drop the subject. From fvandrog at scripps.edu Tue Apr 4 17:24:54 2006 From: fvandrog at scripps.edu (Frank van Drogen) Date: Tue Apr 4 17:38:15 2006 Subject: File formats and the website (was Re: [gutvol-d] another dose of reality) In-Reply-To: <20060405001159.GA5761@joeysmith.com> References: <008201c6534c$1e830240$6755fea9@Corp.Symantec.Com> <442ABF0E.6000607@perathoner.de> <20060329184422.GA30671@joeysmith.com> <442AF08D.5000702@perathoner.de> <1628983256.20060329134820@noring.name> <20060405001159.GA5761@joeysmith.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.8.0.20060404172417.02fc0890@mail.scripps.edu> > >I sent a second attempt at "short descriptions", but as far as I can tell, no >one has commented on it. I'm assuming that silence means it's unacceptable, I'd say silence is approval. Frank From donovan at abs.net Tue Apr 4 20:13:31 2006 From: donovan at abs.net (D Garcia) Date: Tue Apr 4 20:13:46 2006 Subject: [dp-pg] Re: File formats and the website (was Re: [gutvol-d] another dose of reality) In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.8.0.20060404172417.02fc0890@mail.scripps.edu> References: <008201c6534c$1e830240$6755fea9@Corp.Symantec.Com> <20060405001159.GA5761@joeysmith.com> <6.2.0.8.0.20060404172417.02fc0890@mail.scripps.edu> Message-ID: <200604042313.31739.donovan@abs.net> On Tuesday 04 April 2006 08:24 pm, Frank van Drogen wrote: > I'd say silence is approval. > Frank Optimist :P From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Tue Apr 4 23:58:46 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Tue Apr 4 23:59:03 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] pdf production In-Reply-To: <293.8b07a1c.31642944@aol.com> References: <293.8b07a1c.31642944@aol.com> Message-ID: <4fq632dpmjuvs803fmdhc0qg7pfougcoih@4ax.com> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:55:48 EDT, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: |i'm chasing down the last few details |concerning production of quality .pdf |from project gutenberg e-texts... I have Page Plus 11 which *says* that it produces pdf. Is it any good? -- Dave Fawthrop Google Groups is IME the *worst* method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies. From marcello at perathoner.de Wed Apr 5 07:59:02 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Wed Apr 5 07:59:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: File formats and the website In-Reply-To: <20060405001159.GA5761@joeysmith.com> References: <008201c6534c$1e830240$6755fea9@Corp.Symantec.Com> <442ABF0E.6000607@perathoner.de> <20060329184422.GA30671@joeysmith.com> <442AF08D.5000702@perathoner.de> <1628983256.20060329134820@noring.name> <20060405001159.GA5761@joeysmith.com> Message-ID: <4433DB36.2050200@perathoner.de> joey wrote: > I sent a second attempt at "short descriptions", but as far as I can tell, no > one has commented on it. I'm assuming that silence means it's unacceptable, > so unless someone has specific feedback on how I can improve it, I'll drop > the subject. Its already online. If you want to edit it, download the source code of the help page, edit it and mail it to me. Comments: Never use a link text of "here". Always try to make the link a meaningful text. Focus less on technical details, but try to explain why a user might want to get this format (or not). -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Apr 5 10:58:32 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 5 10:58:44 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] once more on translation Message-ID: <235.9ebb5e6.31655f48@aol.com> once more on "mechanical language translation"... first, read: > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/05/technology/techspecial4/05lego.html page 2 of this article talks about amazon's "mechanical turk", a _fascinating_ service unveiled recently which is an intermediary offering human piecemeal employees who will perform smallish tasks for smallish fees. these tasks -- which are called "hits", short for "human intelligence task" -- are administered via the web and picked up by willing workers; examples are "identifying objects in a photo" or answering "is there a human in this photo?" another example of a "hit" that's used by amazon is to "pick the one photo out of these three photos that best illustrates the storefront of this business". each "hit" that a worker performs receives a payment, which might range from as little as one-half a cent up to $.25 or more, depending on the nature of the "hit"... amazon developed this service for its own purposes, and then realized that they could make a business by offering it to other entities that could use it beneficially. amazon handles all the money transactions, which makes it possible to get such piecemeal work done _very_ cheaply. for information on the mechanical turk, read: > http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/104-0655434-6846340?node=15879911 ok, back to the new york times article now, it says this: > One new start-up, Casting Words, is taking advantage > of the Amazon service, known as Mturk, to offer > automated transcription using human transcribers > for less than half the cost of typical commercial online services. reading further, "casting words" has its "mturk" workers download a digital audio file, then upload a transcript of it, so there's nothing really "revolutionary" about what they do, they're just taking advantage of a rather-cheap labor-force. (my guess is a lot of the people who are accepting "hits" are homebound, perhaps physically-handicapped people are stay-at-home moms looking to pick up some income.) however, there's no real reason that "casting words" couldn't come up with a more innovative methodology, one that would create a trio of computerized translations of a specific passage and then offer them as a "hit" in a "click the best one" fashion... this combination of computerized translation with human review might be a very potent means of obtaining high-quality translation at a relatively cheap price. and yes, someone could also set up a commercialized version of distributed proofreaders to get book-digitization done cheaply... (yes, d.p. does it for "free", but they also get their web-space and bandwidth donated, so their actual costs aren't readily apparent. it's also become increasingly clear they won't be able to keep up with the volume we're getting from the large scanning projects, so at some point, if we want proofed text for all of those scans, we're going to have to face the issue of whether we'll pay for it, or whether we'll decide we don't really want it all _that_ badly.) -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060405/9f6694e1/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Apr 5 11:00:56 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 5 11:01:03 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] pdf production Message-ID: <144.58c71878.31655fd8@aol.com> dave said: > I have Page Plus 11 which *says* that it produces pdf. > Is it any good? i have no idea, sorry. but any number of word-processing and d.t.p. programs can produce excellent .pdf in the hands of knowledgeable users... i'm trying to do something a little different, though, which is to give an average person the ability to churn out a good .pdf after doing only a minimal amount of editing on a p.g. e-text (to bring it into the z.m.l. realm), and then bringing it into my z.m.l.-viewer-program, where they can customize the font, fontsize, colors, leading, etc. to their own preferences... if i do my job right, it should be easy as pie for a person to output .pdf's that approach or surpass the quality of those found as exemplar e-books over on the planet-pdf website: > http://www.planetpdf.com/free_pdf_ebooks.asp?CurrentPage=1 appended is their catalog, edited from their site... -bowerbird Free PDF e-Books Archive Great Expectations Charles Dickens My father's family name being Pirrip, and my Christian name Philip, my infant tongue could make of both names nothing longer or more explicit than Pip. So, I called myself Pip, and came to be called Pip. Aesop's Fables Aesop A cock was once strutting up and down the farmyard among the hens when suddenly he espied something shinning amid the straw. "Ho! ho!" quoth he, "that's for me," and soon rooted it out from beneath the straw. What did it turn out to be but a Pearl that by some chance had been lost in the yard? "You may be a treasure," quoth Master Cock, "to men that prize you, but for me I would rather have a single barley-corn than a peck of pearls." Anna Karenina Leo Tolstoy Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. Everything was in confusion in the Oblonskys' house. The wife had discovered that the husband was carrying on an intrigue with a French girl, who had been a governess in their family, and she had announced to her husband that she could not go on living in the same house with him. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland Lewis Carroll Alice was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank, and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, "and what is the use of a book," thought Alice "without pictures or conversation?" Around the World in 80 Days Jules Verne Mr. Phileas Fogg lived, in 1872, at No. 7, Saville Row, Burlington Gardens, the house in which Sheridan died in 1814. He was one of the most noticeable members of the Reform Club, though he seemed always to avoid attracting attention; an enigmatical personage, about whom little was known, except that he was a polished man of the world. People said that he resembled Byron -- at least that his head was Byronic; but he was a bearded, tranquil Byron, who might live on a thousand years without growing old. Crime and Punishment Fyodor Dostoevsky On an exceptionally hot evening early in July a young man came out of the garret in which he lodged in S. Place and walked slowly, as though in hesitation, towards K. bridge. Three Ghost Stories Charles Dickens When he heard a voice thus calling to him, he was standing at the door of his box, with a flag in his hand, furled round its short pole. One would have thought, considering the nature of the ground, that he could not have doubted from what quarter the voice came; but instead of looking up to where I stood on the top of the steep cutting nearly over his head, he turned himself about, and looked down the Line. Emma Jane Austen Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home and happy disposition, seemed to unite some of the best blessings of existence; and had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with very little to distress or vex her. Andersen's Fairy Tales Hans Christian Andersen Many years ago, there was an Emperor, who was so excessively fond of new clothes, that he spent all his money in dress. He did not trouble himself in the least about his soldiers; nor did he care to go either to the theatre or the chase, except for the opportunities then afforded him for displaying his new clothes. He had a different suit for each hour of the day; and as of any other king or emperor, one is accustomed to say, "he is sitting in council," it was always said of him, "The Emperor is sitting in his wardrobe." A Tale of Two Cities Charles Dickens It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way -- in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only. Treasure Island Robert Louis Stevenson SQUIRE TRELAWNEY, Dr. Livesey, and the rest of these gentlemen having asked me to write down the whole particulars about Treasure Island, from the beginning to the end, keeping nothing back but the bearings of the island, and that only because there is still treasure not yet lifted, I take up my pen in the year of grace 17 and go back to the time when my father kept the Admiral Benbow inn and the brown old seaman with the sabre cut first took up his lodging under our roof. Ulysses James Joyce Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came from the stairhead, bearing a bowl of lather on which a mirror and a razor lay crossed. A yellow dressing-gown, ungirdled, was sustained gently behind him on the mild morning air. He held the bowl aloft and intoned: -- Introibo ad altare Dei. Halted, he peered down the dark winding stairs and called out coarsely: -- Come up, Kinch! Come up, you fearful jesuit! A Christmas Carol Charles Dickens Marley was dead: to begin with. There is no doubt whatever about that. The register of his burial was signed by the clergyman, the clerk, the undertaker, and the chief mourner. Scrooge signed it. And Scrooge's name was good upon "Change, for anything he chose to put his hand to."?? Vanity Fair William Makepeace Thackeray While the present century was in its teens, and on one sunshiny morning in June, there drove up to the great iron gate of Miss Pinkerton's academy for young ladies, on Chiswick Mall, a large family coach, with two fat horses in blazing harness, driven by a fat coachman in a three-cornered hat and wig, at the rate of four miles an hour. The Lost World Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Mr. Hungerton, her father, really was the most tactless person upon earth, -- a fluffy, feathery, untidy cockatoo of a man, perfectly good-natured, but absolutely centered upon his own silly self. If anything could have driven me from Gladys, it would have been the thought of such a father-in-law. I am convinced that he really believed in his heart that I came round to the Chestnuts three days a week for the pleasure of his company, and very especially to hear his views upon bimetallism, a subject upon which he was by way of being an authority. Women in Love D.H. Lawrence Ursula and Gudrun Brangwen sat one morning in the window-bay of their father's house in Beldover, working and talking. Ursula was stitching a piece of brightly-coloured embroidery, and Gudrun was drawing upon a board which she held on her knee. They were mostly silent, talking as their thoughts strayed through their minds. Dracula Bram Stoker 3 May. Bistritz. -- Left Munich at 8:35 P.M., on 1st May, arriving at Vienna early next morning; should have arrived at 6:46, but train was an hour late. Buda-Pesth seems a wonderful place, from the glimpse which I got of it from the train and the little I could walk through the streets. I feared to go very far from the station, as we had arrived late and would start as near the correct time as possible. Erewhon Samuel Butler If the reader will excuse me, I will say nothing of my antecedents, nor of the circumstances which led me to leave my native country; the narrative would be tedious to him and painful to myself. Suffice it, that when I left home it was with the intention of going to some new colony, and either finding, or even perhaps purchasing, waste crown land suitable for cattle or sheep farming, by which means I thought that I could better my fortunes more rapidly than in England. For the Term of His Natural Life Marcus Clarke In the breathless stillness of a tropical afternoon, when the air was hot and heavy, and the sky brazen and cloudless, the shadow of the Malabar lay solitary on the surface of the glittering sea. Frankenstein Mary Shelley You will rejoice to hear that no disaster has accompanied the commencement of an enterprise which you have regarded with such evil forebodings. I arrived here yesterday, and my first task is to assure my dear sister of my welfare and increasing confidence in the success of my undertaking. Grimm's Fairy Tales The Brothers Grimm A certain king had a beautiful garden, and in the garden stood a tree which bore golden apples. These apples were always counted, and about the time when they began to grow ripe it was found that every night one of them was gone. The king became very angry at this, and ordered the gardener to keep watch all night under the tree. The gardener set his eldest son to watch; but about twelve o'clock he fell asleep, and in the morning another of the apples was missing. Then the second son was ordered to watch; and at midnight he too fell asleep, and in the morning another apple was gone. Then the third son offered to keep watch; but the gardener at first would not let him. Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad The Nellie, a cruising yawl, swung to her anchor without a flutter of the sails, and was at rest. The flood had made, the wind was nearly calm, and being bound down the river, the only thing for it was to come to and wait for the turn of the tide. Jane Eyre Charlotte Bronte There was no possibility of taking a walk that day. We had been wandering, indeed, in the leafless shrubbery an hour in the morning; but since dinner (Mrs. Reed, when there was no company, dined early) the cold winter wind had brought with it clouds so sombre, and a rain so penetrating, that further outdoor exercise was now out of the question. Kidnapped Robert Louis Stevenson I will begin the story of my adventures with a certain morning early in the month of June, the year of grace 1751, when I took the key for the last time out of the door of my father's house. The sun began to shine upon the summit of the hills as I went down the road; and by the time I had come as far as the manse, the blackbirds were whistling in the garden lilacs, and the mist that hung around the valley in the time of the dawn was beginning to arise and die away. Little Women Louisa May Alcott "Christmas won't be Christmas without any presents," grumbled Jo, lying on the rug. "It's so dreadful to be poor!" sighed Meg, looking down at her old dress. "I don't think it's fair for some girls to have plenty of pretty things, and other girls nothing at all," added little Amy, with an injured sniff. Madame Bovary Gustave Flaubert We were in class when the headmaster came in, followed by a "new fellow", not wearing the school uniform, and a school servant carrying a large desk. Those who had been asleep woke up, and every one rose as if just surprised at his work. Middlemarch George Eliot Miss Brooke had that kind of beauty which seems to be thrown into relief by poor dress. Her hand and wrist were so finely formed that she could wear sleeves not less bare of style than those in which the Blessed Virgin appeared to Italian painters; and her profile as well as her stature and bearing seemed to gain the more dignity from her plain garments, which by the side of provincial fashion gave her the impressiveness of a fine quotation from the Bible, -- or from one of our elder poets, -- in a paragraph of today's newspaper. Moby Dick Herman Melville Call me Ishmael. Some years ago -- never mind how long precisely -- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off -- then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me. Nostromo: A Tale of the Seaboard Joseph Conrad IN THE time of Spanish rule, and for many years afterwards, the town of Sulaco -- the luxuriant beauty of the orange gardens bears witness to its antiquity -- had never been commercially anything more important than a coasting port with a fairly large local trade in ox-hides and indigo. The clumsy deep-sea galleons of the conquerors that, needing a brisk gale to move at all, would lie becalmed, where your modern ship built on clipper lines forges ahead by the mere flapping of her sails, had been barred out of Sulaco by the prevailing calms of its vast gulf. Notes from the Underground Fyodor Dostoevsky I am a sick man. ... I am a spiteful man. I am an unattractive man. I believe my liver is diseased. However, I know nothing at all about my disease, and do not know for certain what ails me. I don't consult a doctor for it, and never have, though I have a respect for medicine and doctors. Besides, I am extremely superstitious, sufficiently so to respect medicine, anyway (I am well-educated enough not to be superstitious, but I am superstitious). No, I refuse to consult a doctor from spite. That you probably will not understand. Well, I understand it, though. Of course, I can't explain who it is precisely that I am mortifying in this case by my spite: I am perfectly well aware that I cannot "pay out" the doctors by not consulting them; I know better than anyone that by all this I am only injuring myself and no one else. But still, if I don't consult a doctor it is from spite. My liver is bad, well -- let it get worse! Of Human Bondage W. Somerset Maugham The day broke gray and dull. The clouds hung heavily, and there was a rawness in the air that suggested snow. A woman servant came into a room in which a child was sleeping and drew the curtains. She glanced mechanically at the house opposite, a stucco house with a portico, and went to the child's bed. Oliver Twist Charles Dickens Among other public buildings in a certain town, which for many reasons it will be prudent to refrain from mentioning, and to which I will assign no fictitious name, there is one anciently common to most towns, great or small: to wit, a workhouse; and in this workhouse was born; on a day and date which I need not trouble myself to repeat, inasmuch as it can be of no possible consequence to the reader, in this stage of the business at all events; the item of mortality whose name is prefixed to the head of this chapter. Paradise Lost John Milton Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste Brought death into the World, and all our woe, With loss of Eden, till one greater Man Restore us, and regain the blissful seat, Sing, Heavenly Muse, that, on the secret top Of Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspire That shepherd who first taught the chosen seed In the beginning how the heavens and earth Rose out of Chaos: or, if Sion hill Pollyanna Eleanor H. Porter Miss Polly Harrington entered her kitchen a little hurriedly this June morning. Miss Polly did not usually make hurried movements; she specially prided herself on her repose of manner. But today she was hurrying -- actually hurrying. Pride and Prejudice Jane Austen It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife. However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families, that he is considered the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters. Robinson Crusoe Daniel Defoe I WAS born in the year 1632, in the city of York, of a good family, though not of that country, my father being a foreigner of Bremen, who settled first at Hull. He got a good estate by merchandise, and leaving off his trade, lived afterwards at York, from whence he had married my mother, whose relations were named Robinson, a very good family in that country, and from whom I was called Robinson Kreutznaer; but, by the usual corruption of words in England, we are now called -- nay we call ourselves and write our name -- Crusoe; and so my companions always called me. Sense and Sensibility Jane Austen The family of Dashwood had long been settled in Sussex. Their estate was large, and their residence was at Norland Park, in the centre of their property, where, for many generations, they had lived in so respectable a manner as to engage the general good opinion of their surrounding acquaintance. The late owner of this estate was a single man, who lived to a very advanced age, and who for many years of his life, had a constant companion and housekeeper in his sister. Sons and Lovers D. H. Lawrence "THE BOTTOMS" succeeded to "Hell Row". Hell Row was a block of thatched, bulging cottages that stood by the brookside on Greenhill Lane. There lived the colliers who worked in the little gin-pits two fields away. The brook ran under the alder trees, scarcely soiled by these small mines, whose coal was drawn to the surface by donkeys that plodded wearily in a circle round a gin. And all over the countryside were these same pits, some of which had been worked in the time of Charles II, the few colliers and the donkeys burrowing down like ants into the earth, making queer mounds and little black places among the cornfields and the meadows. And the cottages of these coalminers, in blocks and pairs here and there, together with odd farms and homes of the stockingers, straying over the parish, formed the village of Bestwood. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn Mark Twain YOU don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer; but that ain't no matter. That book was made by Mr. Mark Twain, and he told the truth, mainly. There was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth. That is nothing. I never seen anybody but lied one time or another, without it was Aunt Polly, or the widow, or maybe Mary. Aunt Polly -- Tom's Aunt Polly, she is -- and Mary, and the Widow Douglas is all told about in that book, which is mostly a true book, with some stretchers, as I said before. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer Mark Twain The old lady pulled her spectacles down and looked over them about the room; then she put them up and looked out under them. She seldom or never looked THROUGH them for so small a thing as a boy; they were her state pair, the pride of her heart, and were built for "style", not service -- she could have seen through a pair of stove-lids just as well. She looked perplexed for a moment, and then said, not fiercely, but still loud enough for the furniture to hear: The Brothers Karamazov Fyodor Dostoevsky ALEXEY Fyodorovitch Karamazov was the third son of Fyodor Pavlovitch Karamazov, a landowner well known in our district in his own day, and still remembered among us owing to his gloomy and tragic death, which happened thirteen years ago, and which I shall describe in its proper place. For the present I will only say that this "landowner" -- for so we used to call him, although he hardly spent a day of his life on his own estate -- was a strange type, yet one pretty frequently to be met with, a type abject and vicious and at the same time senseless. The Hound of the Baskervilles Arthur Conan Doyle Mr. Sherlock Holmes, who was usually very late in the mornings, save upon those not infrequent occasions when he was up all night, was seated at the breakfast table. I stood upon the hearth-rug and picked up the stick which our visitor had left behind him the night before. It was a fine, thick piece of wood, bulbous-headed, of the sort which is known as a "Penang lawyer". Just under the head was a broad silver band nearly an inch across. "To James Mortimer, M.R.C.S., from his friends of the C.C.H.", was engraved upon it, with the date "1884". It was just such a stick as the old-fashioned family practitioner used to carry -- dignified, solid, and reassuring. The Idiot Fyodor Dostoyevsky Towards the end of November, during a thaw, at nine o'clock one morning, a train on the Warsaw and Petersburg railway was approaching the latter city at full speed. The morning was so damp and misty that it was only with great difficulty that the day succeeded in breaking; and it was impossible to distinguish anything more than a few yards away from the carriage windows. The Iliad Homer Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus, that brought countless ills upon the Achaeans. Many a brave soul did it send hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs and vultures, for so were the counsels of Jove fulfilled from the day on which the son of Atreus, king of men, and great Achilles, first fell out with one another. The Island of Doctor Moreau H. G. Wells I DO not propose to add anything to what has already been written concerning the loss of the "Lady Vain". As everyone knows, she collided with a derelict when ten days out from Callao. The longboat, with seven of the crew, was picked up eighteen days after by H. M. gunboat "Myrtle", and the story of their terrible privations has become quite as well known as the far more horrible "Medusa" case. But I have to add to the published story of the "Lady Vain" another, possibly as horrible and far stranger. It has hitherto been supposed that the four men who were in the dingey perished, but this is incorrect. I have the best of evidence for this assertion: I was one of the four men. The Jungle Book Rudyard Kipling It was seven o'clock of a very warm evening in the Seeonee hills when Father Wolf woke up from his day's rest, scratched himself, yawned, and spread out his paws one after the other to get rid of the sleepy feeling in their tips. Mother Wolf lay with her big gray nose dropped across her four tumbling, squealing cubs, and the moon shone into the mouth of the cave where they all lived. "Augrh!" said Father Wolf. "It is time to hunt again." He was going to spring down hill when a little shadow with a bushy tail crossed the threshold and whined: "Good luck go with you, O Chief of the Wolves. And good luck and strong white teeth go with noble children that they may never forget the hungry in this world." The Last of the Mohicans James Fenimore Cooper It was a feature peculiar to the colonial wars of North America, that the toils and dangers of the wilderness were to be encountered before the adverse hosts could meet. A wide and apparently an impervious boundary of forests severed the possessions of the hostile provinces of France and England. The hardy colonist, and the trained European who fought at his side, frequently expended months in struggling against the rapids of the streams, or in effecting the rugged passes of the mountains, in quest of an opportunity to exhibit their courage in a more martial conflict. The Legend of Sleepy Hollow Washington Irving In the bosom of one of those spacious coves which indent the eastern shore of the Hudson, at that broad expansion of the river denominated by the ancient Dutch navigators the Tappan Zee, and where they always prudently shortened sail and implored the protection of St. Nicholas when they crossed, there lies a small market town or rural port, which by some is called Greensburgh, but which is more generally and properly known by the name of Tarry Town. This name was given, we are told, in former days, by the good housewives of the adjacent country, from the inveterate propensity of their husbands to linger about the village tavern on market days. The Merry Adventures of Robin Hood Howard Pyle IN MERRY ENGLAND in the time of old, when good King Henry the Second ruled the land, there lived within the green glades of Sherwood Forest, near Nottingham Town, a famous outlaw whose name was Robin Hood. No archer ever lived that could speed a gray goose shaft with such skill and cunning as his, nor were there ever such yeomen as the sevenscore merry men that roamed with him through the greenwood shades. Right merrily they dwelled within the depths of Sherwood Forest, suffering neither care nor want, but passing the time in merry games of archery or bouts of cudgel play, living upon the King's venison, washed down with draughts of ale of October brewing. The Metamorphosis Franz Kafka One morning, as Gregor Samsa was waking up from anxious dreams, he discovered that in bed he had been changed into a monstrous verminous bug. He lay on his armour-hard back and saw, as he lifted his head up a little, his brown, arched abdomen divided up into rigid bow-like sections. From this height the blanket, just about ready to slide off completely, could hardly stay in place. His numerous legs, pitifully thin in comparison to the rest of his circumference, flickered helplessly before his eyes. The Odyssey Homer Tell me, O Muse, of that ingenious hero who travelled far and wide after he had sacked the famous town of Troy. Many cities did he visit, and many were the nations with whose manners and customs he was acquainted; moreover he suffered much by sea while trying to save his own life and bring his men safely home; but do what he might he could not save his men, for they perished through their own sheer folly in eating the cattle of the Sun-god Hyperion; so the god prevented them from ever reaching home. Tell me, too, about all these things, oh daughter of Jove, from whatsoever source you may know them. The Picture of Dorian Gray Oscar Wilde The studio was filled with the rich odor of roses, and when the light summer wind stirred amidst the trees of the garden there came through the open door the heavy scent of the lilac, or the more delicate perfume of the pink-flowering thorn. The Portrait of a Lady Henry James Under certain circumstances there are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea. There are circumstances in which, whether you partake of the tea or not -- some people of course never do -- the situation is in itself delightful. Those that I have in mind in beginning to unfold this simple history offered an admirable setting to an innocent pastime. The Prince Nicolo Machiavelli All states, all powers, that have held and hold rule over men have been and are either republics or principalities. Principalities are either hereditary, in which the family has been long established; or they are new. The Red Badge of Courage Stephen Crane The cold passed reluctantly from the earth, and the retiring fogs revealed an army stretched out on the hills, resting. As the landscape changed from brown to green, the army awakened, and began to tremble with eagerness at the noise of rumors. It cast its eyes upon the roads, which were growing from long troughs of liquid mud to proper thoroughfares. A river, amber-tinted in the shadow of its banks, purled at the army's feet; and at night, when the stream had become of a sorrowful blackness, one could see across it the red, eyelike gleam of hostile campfires set in the low brows of distant hills. The Scarlet Letter Nathaniel Hawthorne A throng of bearded men, in sad-coloured garments and grey steeple-crowned hats, intermixed with women, some wearing hoods, and others bareheaded, was assembled in front of a wooden edifice, the door of which was heavily timbered with oak, and studded with iron spikes. The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde Robert Louis Stevenson MR. UTTERSON the lawyer was a man of a rugged countenance, that was never lighted by a smile; cold, scanty and embarrassed in discourse; backward in sentiment; lean, long, dusty, dreary, and yet somehow lovable. At friendly meetings, and when the wine was to his taste, something eminently human beaconed from his eye; something indeed which never found its way into his talk, but which spoke not only in these silent symbols of the after-dinner face, but more often and loudly in the acts of his life. He was austere with himself; drank gin when he was alone, to mortify a taste for vintages; and though he enjoyed the theatre, had not crossed the doors of one for twenty years. But he had an approved tolerance for others; sometimes wondering, almost with envy, at the high pressure of spirits involved in their misdeeds; and in any extremity inclined to help rather than to reprove. The Thirty-Nine Steps John Buchan I returned from the City about three o'clock on that May afternoon pretty well disgusted with life. I had been three months in the Old Country, and was fed up with it. If anyone had told me a year ago that I would have been feeling like that I should have laughed at him; but there was the fact. The weather made me liverish, the talk of the ordinary Englishman made me sick, I couldn't get enough exercise, and the amusements of London seemed as flat as soda -- water that has been standing in the sun. The Time Machine H. G. Wells The Time Traveller (for so it will be convenient to speak of him) was expounding a recondite matter to us. His grey eyes shone and twinkled, and his usually pale face was flushed and animated. The fire burned brightly, and the soft radiance of the incandescent lights in the lilies of silver caught the bubbles that flashed and passed in our glasses. Our chairs, being his patents, embraced and caressed us rather than submitted to be sat upon, and there was that luxurious after-dinner atmosphere when thought roams gracefully free of the trammels of precision. And he put it to us in this way -- marking the points with a lean forefinger -- as we sat and lazily admired his earnestness over this new paradox (as we thought it) and his fecundity. The War of the Worlds H. G. Wells No one would have believed in the last years of the nineteenth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter. The Way of All Flesh Samuel Butler When I was a small boy at the beginning of the century I remember an old man who wore knee-breeches and worsted stockings, and who used to hobble about the street of our village with the help of a stick. He must have been getting on for eighty in the year 1807, earlier than which date I suppose I can hardly remember him, for I was born in 1802. A few white locks hung about his ears, his shoulders were bent and his knees feeble, but he was still hale, and was much respected in our little world of Paleham. His name was Pontifex. The Works of Edgar Allan Poe Edgar Allan Poe BY late accounts from Rotterdam, that city seems to be in a high state of philosophical excitement. Indeed, phenomena have there occurred of a nature so completely unexpected -- so entirely novel -- so utterly at variance with preconceived opinions -- as to leave no doubt on my mind that long ere this all Europe is in an uproar, all physics in a ferment, all reason and astronomy together by the ears. Utopia Thomas More He that knows one of their towns knows them all -- they are so like one another, except where the situation makes some difference. I shall therefore describe one of them, and none is so proper as Amaurot; for as none is more eminent (all the rest yielding in precedence to this, because it is the seat of their supreme council), so there was none of them better known to me, I having lived five years all together in it. War and Peace Leo Tolstoy "Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you don't tell me that this means war, if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist -- I really believe he is Antichrist -- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer my 'faithful slave', as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have frightened you -- sit down and tell me all the news." Wuthering Heights Emily Bronte 1801. -- I have just returned from a visit to my landlord -- the solitary neighbour that I shall be troubled with. This is certainly a beautiful country! In all England, I do not believe that I could have fixed on a situation so completely removed from the stir of society. A perfect misanthropist's heaven: and Mr. Heathcliff and I are such a suitable pair to divide the desolation between us. A capital fellow! He little imagined how my heart warmed towards him when I beheld his black eyes withdraw so suspiciously under their brows, as I rode up, and when his fingers sheltered themselves, with a jealous resolution, still further in his waistcoat, as I announced my name. Beyond Good and Evil Friedrich Nietzsche 1. The Will to Truth, which is to tempt us to many a hazardous enterprise, the famous Truthfulness of which all philosophers have hitherto spoken with respect, what questions has this Will to Truth not laid before us! What strange, perplexing, questionable questions! It is already a long story; yet it seems as if it were hardly commenced. Is it any wonder if we at last grow distrustful, lose patience, and turn impatiently away? That this Sphinx teaches us at last to ask questions ourselves? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060405/0e71b97e/attachment-0001.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Apr 5 11:13:54 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 5 11:14:04 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] in other news Message-ID: <36f.1258866.316562e2@aol.com> in other news... apple has given their blessing to running windows on mac hardware. doing so is in beta now, and it will be built into the next iteration of o.s.x. of course, no one is gonna buy a mac to run windows on it, because if that's what you want, you can buy a much cheaper box... but for those of us who prefer to use the mac o.s., it'll be quite nice to have the _ability_ to boot into win xp on those rare occasions when we might have a need to do so. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060405/8a8d8597/attachment.html From gbnewby at pglaf.org Thu Apr 6 11:56:26 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Thu Apr 6 11:56:27 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] news.com.com article on eBooks, Sony... Message-ID: <20060406185626.GK2987@pglaf.org> It was a welcome change from the norm that this reporter wanted to talk with someone from Project Gutenberg (me, as it worked out): http://news.com.com/E-books%2C+has+your+time+come/2100-1025_3-6057814.html E-books, has your time come? By Elinor Mills Staff Writer, CNET News.com Published: April 5, 2006, 4:00 AM PDT Recent announcements regarding electronic books have breathed fresh life into a seemingly moribund market. But some experts say e-books need to do more than move ink onto digital displays to go mainstream. Sony announced on Monday that its Sony Reader will be sold at Borders bookstores for between $300 and $400 and texts will be available for download from the Sony Connect online store this summer. And on Tuesday, Harry Potter publisher Bloomsbury began offering titles for download off the Internet, presumably for reading on PCs. "Although it's not a big area now, it will be in the future," Bloomsbury Chairman Nigel Newton told Reuters. "We want to stake out our territory." The news raises a question: Is there suddenly a market for what so far has been a novelty act? E-books, which can be downloaded to a special reading device or a traditional PC, got a major push in 2000 when Microsoft partnered with Barnes & Noble on an e-book store for Microsoft Reader software. Three years later, Barnes & Noble discontinued its e-book efforts, citing slow sales. "Expectations were way out of line with the evolution of these new forms of reading," said Steve Potash, chief executive of Overdrive, a digital media clearinghouse that hosts about 150,000 digital books, music and video titles. "A few years ago we didn't have quite the selection" that's available now. However, major publishers, schools and universities, and public libraries have come around and are jumping on the bandwagon, he said. But the relative sparsity of selections still vexes, as do other criticisms. Five years ago, in addition to the lack of titles, some customers complained about restrictions in e-book readers on printing, copying, exporting to other types of devices and sharing with other companies' e-book readers. Price, too, has been a factor. "We don't see a lot of resistance to electronic books per se," said Gregory Newby, director of Project Gutenberg, the first electronic library, which offers 20,000 titles for free. "What we see are limiting factors in specialized readers and difficulty in finding good stuff to read." Plus, "publishers are charging the same amount for an electronic book as for a paper book." There are other challenges too. With e-book readers, people may be able to store numerous texts in one small device and do things to make reading easier, such as changing type size, something that's impossible with print. But people also like to share books with others, resell them and hand them down to their children, he said. "When you buy a book, you have it forever," Newby said. "With these electronic books, you often are prevented from doing those things that you can do with regular books. What happens when my device breaks?...Books aren't just words on a page. They are things you can trade, share and store for later." To be compelling enough to trigger any kind of mass migration away from paper books, e-books will need to have compelling characteristics regular books don't, such as interactivity and mixed-media capabilities, Newby and others said. Authors could write books that let people read alternate endings or that contain moving pictures and characters that speak aloud, he said. "This would be a pretty exciting change from plain old paper. People like interactive stuff online. Why wouldn't we see that in a book?" David Bass, senior vice president of sales and marketing at Ebrary, which supplies e-books to academic institutions and public and corporate libraries, had a similar vision. In the future, e-book readers "will be experience-oriented, not device-oriented. It has to be more than a book," he said. "That's why e-books in 1999 and 2000 were really a failure in the consumer market, because all you were getting was printed text." E-book readers also face stiff competition from devices like iPods, personal digital assistants and even smart phones--gadgets that let users do more than just read text, said Jean Bedord, a senior analyst at research and consulting firm Shore Communications. "Reading books electronically will take off, but I think a higher proportion will be read on a handheld device" that offers multiple functions, she said. This is particularly so in light of book-scanning projects from Google, Yahoo, Amazon.com and others, which promise to make it easy to search for and within books, she said. Right now, there are niches where electronic books have seen greater growth than the general consumer market, such as academic sales, experts said. And public libraries across the country have been big adopters, offering free downloads to anyone with a library card. Ebrary saw the number of its institutional customers grow from 400 to 900 last year, and the number of its users double to about 6 million, according to Bass. "Consumers really like taking a paperback or hardcover on the plane with them or to the beach," he said. "Whereas students and professors are in front of the computer all day long." Students on about 100 campuses in the U.S. have the option of using digital textbooks on laptops, which cost 25 percent to 35 percent less than paper textbooks, said Overdrive's Potash, who is also president of the International Digital Publishing Forum. "One-third of dental students in the country have notebook computers with their entire curriculum on them," he added. But even Potash says that for everyone else, the user experience of digital books has to change to really see the market take off. "We are again trying to keep expectations in check," said Potash. "We are still a few years away (from) taking an electronic book into the bathtub or into the sand." From webmaster at gutenberg.org Thu Apr 6 12:28:54 2006 From: webmaster at gutenberg.org (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Thu Apr 6 12:29:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: You're on PC World's "101 Fabulous Freebies" list!] Message-ID: <44356BF6.8050802@gutenberg.org> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: You're on PC World's "101 Fabulous Freebies" list! Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:06:40 -0700 From: Keri Campbell To: webmaster@gutenberg.org Congratulations! It is my pleasure to inform you know that your product or service has been selected to appear on PC World's ?101 Fabulous Freebies? list. The article is featured in PC World?s May 2006 issue, which goes on sale at newsstands April 11. Downloads or services named to the ?101 Fabulous Freebies? list were chosen by PC Worldeditors based on features, design, and performance. Each product must be a fully-functioning version consumers can obtain at no cost. Your product/service on PC World's 101 Fabulous Freebies list: Project Gutenberg The article is now available online at: http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,124883,tk,pcw_pr,findid,52632,00.asp Attached below are some items that will help you promote this designation: The ?PC World 101 Fabulous Freebies? logo (.eps & .jpg files) for your use in advertising, packaging, sales kits, or on your own Web site. When using the logo, you must add the exact product name or service that won below the logo. See sample below. If using the logo online, we ask that you link it to the corresponding article on PCWorld.com using the URL above. << PC World 101 Fabulous Freebies logo: May 2006 >> Exact product or service name "PC World 101 Fabulous Freebies? announcement press release template Reprints information If you're not the right person to receive this information, please forward to the appropriate marketing and/or public relations contact. Sincerely, Keri Campbell PC World keri_campbell@pcworld.com -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From hart at pglaf.org Sun Apr 9 10:38:10 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Sun Apr 9 10:38:12 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Time's Man of the Millennium Message-ID: I'm looking for a copy or two of this particular Time magazine to keep in our Project Gutenberg archives, if anyone should be willing to part with a copy or finds one out there. Thanks!!! Michael From kloro at cox.net Sun Apr 9 14:36:16 2006 From: kloro at cox.net (tom arnall) Date: Sun Apr 9 14:46:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' In-Reply-To: <20060409190003.43C268C1B9@pglaf.org> References: <20060409190003.43C268C1B9@pglaf.org> Message-ID: <200604091436.16506.kloro@cox.net> I am interested in creating a Gutenberg book of Emanuel Lasker's 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' If anyone is interested in helping me scan the book, please let me know. Also, the copyright info in my copy of the book states that the book was originally published in 1932. Does this mean that the book is still protected by copyright law in the US? Tom Arnall north spit, ca From Bowerbird at aol.com Sun Apr 9 14:53:10 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 9 14:53:17 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] using color to highlight suspicious segments Message-ID: <327.1967a5f.316adc46@aol.com> hey, today is my "d.p. birthday"! :+) it's been 3 years now. and 32 pages, meaning i am averaging just under 11 pages per year... woohoo! ;+) *** roger frank, over on the d.p. forums, said: > My example is this: in a recent book with a character "Ann" > there was one instance of "Ana" that I missed. The first thing > I did was to write code that goes through every word in the book, > checks them against a dictionary, finds the singletons or doubletons, > and then does an edit-distance check on those words against > every word used in the book. In this case, that code finds "Ana" once > and "Ann" many times. It's almost certainly an error that > needs to be flagged. But how? you might be overthinking (and overprogramming) this... a simple ascii-based sort of the unique words in the book (with occurrence counts) can quickly and easily be generated, and a perusal skim of that will reveal instances like this one... use an ascii sort, so that capitalized forms will sort separately: > Ana -- 1 ********** (asterisk entities with few occurrences) > And -- 6 > Ann -- 22 > Apple -- 2 ********** > Ben -- 86 you'll also find that pulling out all _names_ is a good idea; "anything capitalized mid-sentence" is a working definition. not only will that help you sort out the names very quickly, but it will identify those pesky mid-sentence capitalizations that can happen when an "i" was incorrectly upper-cased... > Since I go through the whole book anyway > a paragraph at a time before sending it to PPV, > I'm thinking why can't I have that error and indeed > any suspicious situation flagged in the file I review? > And what better way is there than to use color? > So as I go through the book a page at a time > I might use one color for questionable one-off errors > (like "Ana" for "Ann"), another color for apparent quote mark > mismatches, another for spelling suspects, and so forth. > So this idea is half-baked at best, but I'm going to explore it. it's not a half-baked idea. it works quite wonderfully for me... the one thing i'd suggest is that you build this into a program that lets you make the corrections right away, inside of itself, rather than doing the display via .html and then having to go to a separate program to do the required editing... extra points if your program can analyze the list created above and wisk you to the very place where the single "ann" is located, complete with the scan placed next to it for a quick evaluation... > If I'm crazy, tell me now. > If it might be worthwhile, I'd like to know. Thanks. you're not crazy. in fact, you're smarter than the average bear. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060409/b7ab29cc/attachment.html From donovan at abs.net Sun Apr 9 15:19:41 2006 From: donovan at abs.net (D Garcia) Date: Sun Apr 9 15:19:52 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' In-Reply-To: <200604091436.16506.kloro@cox.net> References: <20060409190003.43C268C1B9@pglaf.org> <200604091436.16506.kloro@cox.net> Message-ID: <200604091819.41344.donovan@abs.net> On Sunday 09 April 2006 05:36 pm, tom arnall wrote: > I am interested in creating a Gutenberg book of Emanuel Lasker's 'Lasker's > Manual of Chess.' If anyone is interested in helping me scan the book, > please let me know. Also, the copyright info in my copy of the book states > that the book was originally published in 1932. Does this mean that the > book is still protected by copyright law in the US? The earliest edition I find of this in a quick LOC search is 1927, so at a glance it's still under copyright in the US, and not eligible for PG. You may wish to refer to: http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm and especially here: http://copy.pglaf.org/ in order to have a better understanding of the very stringent requirements that must be met for post-1922 US publications. From Bowerbird at aol.com Sun Apr 9 19:41:00 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 9 19:41:08 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko Message-ID: <2fa.2c8be42.316b1fbc@aol.com> branko, i'm gonna tell you one more time not to edit my posts over on the teleread blog. if you continue, i'll have to come over to the d.p. forums and have a word with you there. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060409/0340f8f3/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Mon Apr 10 05:23:17 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Mon Apr 10 05:23:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko Message-ID: <20060410122317.E08C6DA583@ws6-6.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bowerbird@aol.com > > branko, i'm gonna tell you one more time > not to edit my posts over on the teleread blog. > > if you continue, i'll have to come over to the > d.p. forums and have a word with you there. > Why would things happening on an unrelated website concern conversations on DP? That's like arguing with your wife and then yelling at your kids because you're upset. Josh From j.hagerson at comcast.net Mon Apr 10 06:02:43 2006 From: j.hagerson at comcast.net (John Hagerson) Date: Mon Apr 10 06:15:42 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Problems with image download links? Message-ID: <005d01c65c9f$115a8be0$0300a8c0@sarek> I have noted a number of comments with incoming requests for copies of the CD and DVD that state that people have had problems following the links. One comment today specifically mentioned that no one is seeding our BitTorrent link. I doubt that this is the case, but the comments occur too often to ignore. Would it be appropriate to augment the CD/DVD download page with a link to some "newbie friendly" instructions? Thank you. From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Apr 10 08:17:31 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 10 08:17:43 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko Message-ID: <277.8031d0f.316bd10b@aol.com> josh said: > Why would things happening on an unrelated website > concern conversations on DP? why? because the same parties are involved! and because branko represents himself over there on the teleread blog as being closely related to distributed proofreaders _and_ a volunteer with project gutenberg. is it in the best interest of these entities to have someone associated with them be responsible for editing writing from someone against the explicit stated will of that writer? i would think not... my guess is that it would send _shivers_ down the spine of michael hart to have project gutenberg being portrayed as big brother rewriting the history books. talk about being "untrustworthy"! we are on a very slippery slope here, and remember, it always starts with something "innocuous", which people encourage you to "sweep under the rug" as "unimportant". -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060410/ca9fb4ff/attachment.html From jon at noring.name Mon Apr 10 08:38:35 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Mon Apr 10 08:38:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko In-Reply-To: <277.8031d0f.316bd10b@aol.com> References: <277.8031d0f.316bd10b@aol.com> Message-ID: <974973632.20060410093836@noring.name> Bowerbird wrote: > Josh said: >>?Why would things happening on an unrelated website concern >> conversations on DP? > Because the same parties are involved! > > And because Branko represents himself over there on the Teleread > blog as being closely related to Distributed Proofreaders _and_ a > volunteer with Project Gutenberg. > > Is it in the best interest of these entities to have someone > associated with them be responsible for editing writing from > someone against the explicit stated will of that writer??I would > think not... > > My guess is that it would send _shivers_ down the spine of Michael > Hart to have Project Gutenberg being portrayed as Big Brother > rewriting the history books. Talk about being "untrustworthy"! > > We are on a very slippery slope here, and remember, it always starts > with something "innocuous", which people encourage you to "sweep > under the rug" as "unimportant". What changes did Branko make to your comment? Do you have the before and after versions which will allow the rest of us to compare? Jon (Btw, were the changes simply changing line breaks and adding back capitalization as done to your reply above? Or was content actually removed? Also, Bowerbird, have you ever asked Michael Hart and others if it is alright to write their names in lower case? Is it *your* right to put in lower case the names of people and organizations who wish to be mentioned with capitalization? It may seem small to you, but small things add up over time, and it would not surprise me if a lot of people detest your use of all lower case, just as many people detest the use of all upper case. You've never explained why you only use lower case for everything. Maybe it's simply for some effect, but when you mention "michael hart" and "project gutenberg", you, in essence, are denigrating them by not following how *they* use their names. If Michael signs his messages with "Michael", then maybe you should, honor his preferences. Now, he may grant you permission to spell his name lower case, then that's fine. He may not care, but then he may, but has been polite to you and not brought it up.) From joey at joeysmith.com Mon Apr 10 09:18:16 2006 From: joey at joeysmith.com (joey) Date: Mon Apr 10 09:20:57 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko In-Reply-To: <277.8031d0f.316bd10b@aol.com> References: <277.8031d0f.316bd10b@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060410161816.GA3577@joeysmith.com> On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 11:17:31AM -0400, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > why? > > because the same parties are involved! That's a bit of a stretch. I, for one, don't read this blog, and couldn't possibly care less whether the people posting articles on this blog edit the content of comments posted to their articles. > and because branko represents himself > over there on the teleread blog as being > closely related to distributed proofreaders > _and_ a volunteer with project gutenberg. > > is it in the best interest of these entities > to have someone associated with them > be responsible for editing writing from > someone against the explicit stated will > of that writer? i would think not... Even if this "branko" person does represent himself as being part of DP and/or Project Gutenberg, unless Project Gutenberg has identified him as an agent of the organization (which maybe they have and I just don't know it), I don't see how it's the business of this list to get involved in this matter. > > my guess is that it would send _shivers_ > down the spine of michael hart to have > project gutenberg being portrayed as > big brother rewriting the history books. > talk about being "untrustworthy"! > > we are on a very slippery slope here, and > remember, it always starts with something > "innocuous", which people encourage you > to "sweep under the rug" as "unimportant". There's a simple solution: If you don't like what's being done to your comments on the blog, stop commenting on and/or reading the blog. From joshua at hutchinson.net Mon Apr 10 09:33:29 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Mon Apr 10 09:33:31 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko Message-ID: <20060410163329.B74C9DA4D8@ws6-6.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > > my guess is that it would send _shivers_ > down the spine of michael hart to have > project gutenberg being portrayed as > big brother rewriting the history books. > talk about being "untrustworthy"! > What sends shivers down my spine is that PG or DP could have any say whatsoever in how an unrelated entity runs their business. Luckily, it does not. Editing of your content is beside the point in this case. What I object to is the insinuation/demand that PG/DP take some sort of active role in someone else's business. I know I'd be extremely upset if TeleRead tried to dictate to me what I can or cannot do on DP. I can only assume they'd be equally offended if I tried to boss them around. In other words, leave DP out of it. We don't want to get involved. Josh From gbnewby at pglaf.org Mon Apr 10 10:37:21 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Mon Apr 10 10:37:23 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko In-Reply-To: <20060410161816.GA3577@joeysmith.com> References: <277.8031d0f.316bd10b@aol.com> <20060410161816.GA3577@joeysmith.com> Message-ID: <20060410173721.GA26802@pglaf.org> On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 10:18:16AM -0600, joey wrote: > Even if this "branko" person does represent himself as being part of DP > and/or Project Gutenberg, unless Project Gutenberg has identified him > as an agent of the organization (which maybe they have and I just don't > know it), I don't see how it's the business of this list to get involved > in this matter. > Branko is a lovely fellow and active volunteer. But no, he doesn't speak for PG or DP. -- Greg From gbnewby at pglaf.org Mon Apr 10 10:40:08 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Mon Apr 10 10:40:09 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Problems with image download links? In-Reply-To: <005d01c65c9f$115a8be0$0300a8c0@sarek> References: <005d01c65c9f$115a8be0$0300a8c0@sarek> Message-ID: <20060410174008.GB26802@pglaf.org> On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 08:02:43AM -0500, John Hagerson wrote: > I have noted a number of comments with incoming requests for copies of the > CD and DVD that state that people have had problems following the links. One > comment today specifically mentioned that no one is seeding our BitTorrent > link. I doubt that this is the case, but the comments occur too often to > ignore. There is a known problem on the DVD: the links used mixed case, so it won't work on a Linux/Unix system. It works fine on Mac & Win, which are not as case-sensitive. > Would it be appropriate to augment the CD/DVD download page with a link to > some "newbie friendly" instructions? Sure -- go ahead and supply some new content, or a rewritten page. Aaron, Marcello and I are all able to update the live pages. As you know, but others might not: I've undertaken to build a new "Best Of DVD." We'll have this up for testing soon... -- Greg From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Apr 10 10:40:47 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 10 10:41:00 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko Message-ID: <2dc.59334cf.316bf29f@aol.com> jon said: > What changes did Branko make to your comment? well, i usually don't respond to jon noring on this listserve, because noring, on his own listserve, censors michael hart. (interesting how one censor steps up to defend another...) but i'll make an exception in this case to give this answer: you don't know what was changed, do you? and isn't that the way that it _always_ is when someone rewrites history? *** josh said: > In other words, leave DP out of it.? > We don't want to get involved. i don't blame you! i wouldn't wanna be involved with someone rewriting history either... but nonetheless, there branko is, touting connections to d.p. and p.g., and then redoing my blog comments. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060410/0471c3a0/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Apr 10 10:47:03 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 10 10:47:14 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko Message-ID: <309.26a6753.316bf417@aol.com> greg said: > Branko is a lovely fellow and active volunteer.? > But no, he doesn't speak for PG or DP. nobody ever said he did. no volunteer does. but his actions now certainly reflect -- badly -- on both d.p. and p.g., since he has in the past touted his alignment rather obviously, having written entries about d.p. and p.g. at teleread and various other places around cyberspace. but hey, if you don't care, i don't care either... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060410/cdee4f3b/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Mon Apr 10 11:12:50 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Mon Apr 10 11:12:52 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko Message-ID: <20060410181250.8AF259E74F@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bowerbird@aol.com > > greg said: > > Branko is a lovely fellow and active volunteer. But no, he doesn't > > speak for PG or DP. > > nobody ever said he did. no volunteer does. > > but his actions now certainly reflect -- badly -- > on both d.p. and p.g., since he has in the past > touted his alignment rather obviously, having > written entries about d.p. and p.g. at teleread > and various other places around cyberspace. You've claimed connections to PG and DP both in the past. You reflect badly (in my opinion) on both organizations. But just because you spout flaming idiocy on a regular basis, it isn't PG or DP's place to "silence" or dictate your behavior on a completely unrelated forum like TeleRead's blog. The most we could do is silence or dictate behavior here or on DP's forums. This isn't to say Banko is or is not fully justified in what he edited. I don't know the circumstances nor do I care, since TeleRead is NOT AFFLIATED with PG or DP and therefore what they decide to do is their own business. Josh From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Apr 10 11:48:23 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 10 11:48:39 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] bowerbird is totally unrelated to p.g. and d.p. Message-ID: <363.1d94fc2.316c0277@aol.com> josh said: > You've claimed connections to PG and DP both in the past.? nope. i am totally unrelated to both, thank you very much. i love project gutenberg -- well, mostly michael hart -- as _the_ premiere cyberlibrary and shining example of unlimited distribution, and i hope that some of my work helps to further the cause. i'm also happy to give p.g. my gift of constructive criticism. but i'm not connected to p.g. nothing i say or do should reflect positively or negatively on project gutenberg, not in the slightest way, shape, or form... i also respect distributed proofreaders greatly -- well, the brainstorm (and hard work) of charlez franks that created a great example of distributed collaboration, as well as the _many_ volunteers who give so willingly and generously of their time and energy to the cause -- and i'd be happy to give my gift of constructive criticism to d.p. as well, but d.p. doesn't seem to want it much. :+) further, nothing i say or do should reflect on d.p. either. i'm sure everyone knew this -- my independence is clear -- but i'm quite happy to repeat it out loud just for the record... indeed, if i didn't think larger issues were at stake here -- including building infrastructure for our cyberlibrary and the best practices workflow for digitizing p-books -- i wouldn't bother giving my gift of constructive criticism here and other places in cyberspace. but there is a need... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060410/d62ef67a/attachment.html From jon at noring.name Mon Apr 10 12:03:34 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Mon Apr 10 12:03:47 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko In-Reply-To: <2dc.59334cf.316bf29f@aol.com> References: <2dc.59334cf.316bf29f@aol.com> Message-ID: <771022203.20060410130334@noring.name> Bowerbird wrote: > jon said: >> What changes did Branko make to your comment? > well, i usually don't respond to jon noring on this listserve, > because noring, on his own listserve, censors michael hart. > (interesting how one censor steps up to defend another...) Michael Hart is on moderation, as most of the others on TeBC. This tactic of using the wrong word to effect an emotional response ("censor" is just such an emotionally-laden word) is definitely Bowerbird's forte. > but i'll make an exception in this case to give this answer: > you don't know what was changed, do you?? and isn't that > the way that it _always_ is when someone rewrites history? But you know what changes were made. Your refusal to provide that information only hurts your case. Branko did make a general comment of the nature of the edit, and I support his reason. I know Branko, and know that he would only do editing in extreme cases. I can only assume that your refusal to provide even a general summary is because you don't have any basis to accuse Branko of anything nefarious. Of course, you'll probably reply in Bowerbirdesque fashion that you will not provide the information because I requested it. > josh said: >>?In other words, leave DP out of it.?We don't want to get involved. > i don't blame you! > > i wouldn't wanna be involved with someone rewriting history either... > > but nonetheless, there branko is, touting connections to d.p. and > p.g., and then redoing my blog comments. "Rewriting history"? Another emotionally-laden phrase that obfuscates what probably happened. Bowerbird has been using all these obfuscatory and emotionally-laden phrases of late: "hype", "censor", "rewriting history", etc. Jon From jon at noring.name Mon Apr 10 12:23:44 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Mon Apr 10 12:23:54 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] branko In-Reply-To: <309.26a6753.316bf417@aol.com> References: <309.26a6753.316bf417@aol.com> Message-ID: <4010531156.20060410132344@noring.name> Bowerbird wrote: > greg said: >>?Branko is a lovely fellow and active volunteer.? >>?But no, he doesn't speak for PG or DP. > but his actions now certainly reflect -- badly -- > on both d.p. and p.g., You forgot to add "in my opinion." In fact, what you just wrote is borderline libelous because you are painting him as having done something really really bad, and presenting it as FACT rather than your opinion. Since you have not stated, even in general, what Branko edited away, how can the rest of us make a judgement either way? It then boils down to reputation and past history. How do you compare to Branko in those departments? I have my thoughts, and it certainly is not on your side. Now, you may claim that editing *anything* away is evil. But the vast majority of people don't believe this. Libelous, abusive, nasty messages should certain be edited or even removed. Vibrant communities are not grown in a Darwinian (anarchist) environment, but rather in environments where cordiality is maintained and, where necessary, enforced. > since he has in the past touted his alignment rather obviously, > having written entries about d.p. and p.g. at teleread and various > other places around cyberspace. This is irrelevant, since the topic of the article he wrote has little to do with DP and PG activities. We all wear multiple hats. I'm a father, a husband, a standards developer, an engineer, an ebook publisher, a 78 record collector, a mountain hiker, etc., etc., one should not latch onto any one role unless it is relevant to the topic at hand. > but hey, if you don't care, i don't care either... If you demonstrate that Branko deliberately censored some objective and rational thoughts/ideas you contributed to the discussion, then several here would care. That you have chosen not to reveal exactly what was censored (and I *know* you have a very good memory), does not help your case. It's probably best for you, Bowerbird, to drop this. I have not seen one person come to your defense on this, either here or in the TeleRead blog forum. Jon From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Apr 10 13:04:23 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 10 13:04:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship Message-ID: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> jon noring said: > Michael Hart is on moderation, > as most of the others on TeBC. unless something has changed recently, the headers clearly show michael's posts have had to be "approved" before posting. except for the occasional new subscriber, nobody else's headers show such "approval" was required before the message was posted. whether this enforced moderation constitutes "censorship" or not depends on how we choose to define the word. but my best guess is that michael feels that his voice is being silenced... and of course i've been _banned_outright_ from jon's listserve, for many years now. he will tell you that's because i was "rude" or some such nonsense. everyone knows it's because he wanted to silence me, because my comments gummed up his hype machine. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060410/753aea96/attachment.html From jon at noring.name Mon Apr 10 13:19:42 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Mon Apr 10 13:19:51 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship In-Reply-To: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> References: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> Message-ID: <107323260.20060410141942@noring.name> Bowerbird: > jon noring said: >>?Michael Hart is on moderation, as most of the others on TeBC. > unless something has changed recently, the headers clearly > show michael's posts have had to be "approved" before posting. Yes, as I said, Michael Hart, along with most of the other 2900+ subscribers of TeBC, are on moderation. > except for the occasional new subscriber, nobody else's headers > show such "approval" was required before the message was posted. At least half, if not the majority, of messages posted the last couple months have been moderated. As I've noted before, all newcomers are moderated -- the old-timers will eventually be switched to moderation. In fact, I almost did this switch before my trip to SF/Oregon a few weeks ago, but decided to do the switch afterwards. Soon... > whether this enforced moderation constitutes "censorship" or not > depends on how we choose to define the word.? but my best guess > is that michael feels that his voice is being silenced... I'll let Michael state how much he really has been "censored". Ask him how many of his literally hundreds (or maybe over a thousand) of his messages to TeBC have been disallowed (Michael Hart is the number one poster to TeBC, and though I sometimes disagree with him, greatly cherish his message.) I know the number, and it is *very small* -- I mean an integer extremely close to zero. And the reasons had to do more with controlling an out-of-control topic than anything else. Anyway, Michael is also on moderation on the Book People list. Of course, there everyone is on moderation, as I plan to do soon. > and of course i've been _banned_outright_ from jon's listserve, for > many years now. he will tell you that's because i was "rude" or some > such nonsense. everyone knows it's because he wanted to silence me, > because my comments gummed up his hype machine. Laugh. Pot, Kettle, Black. (Referring to Bowerbird's claim in a message earlier today that Branko practices "historical revisionism".) Jon Noring From fvandrog at scripps.edu Mon Apr 10 13:22:20 2006 From: fvandrog at scripps.edu (Frank van Drogen) Date: Mon Apr 10 13:22:20 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship In-Reply-To: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> References: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.8.0.20060410132144.031cc360@mail.scripps.edu> >and of course i've been _banned_outright_ from >jon's listserve, for many years now. he will tell you >that's because i was "rude" or some such nonsense. Rude, you BB? The very idea is shocking!! ;) Frank From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Apr 10 14:07:23 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 10 14:07:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship Message-ID: <375.1813155.316c230b@aol.com> frank said: > The very idea is shocking!! ;) got a good laugh out of that, did you frank? well, i'm glad... ;+) -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060410/5d29b7e9/attachment.html From gbuchana at rogers.com Mon Apr 10 18:37:34 2006 From: gbuchana at rogers.com (Gardner Buchanan) Date: Mon Apr 10 18:44:16 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' In-Reply-To: <200604091819.41344.donovan@abs.net> References: <20060409190003.43C268C1B9@pglaf.org> <200604091436.16506.kloro@cox.net> <200604091819.41344.donovan@abs.net> Message-ID: <443B085E.5020307@rogers.com> > On Sunday 09 April 2006 05:36 pm, tom arnall wrote: > >>I am interested in creating a Gutenberg book of Emanuel Lasker's 'Lasker's >>Manual of Chess.' D Garcia wrote: > > The earliest edition I find of this in a quick LOC search is 1927, so at a > glance it's still under copyright in the US, and not eligible for PG. > Emanuel Lasker (1868-1941) is most likely fair game for PG Australia. ============================================================ Gardner Buchanan Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. From hart at pglaf.org Tue Apr 11 08:06:55 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:06:57 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship In-Reply-To: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> References: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> Message-ID: I should add that not only does Jon Noring censor me to a greater extent that I am aware of him censoring any others, he also makes efforts to get me censored on other lists by starting flame wars and then he is the first to say that _I_ am the cause. By the way, this is common practice among flamers. Lately my subscription underwent a dozen changes for a week's period and I mentioned this multiple times, but have had no responses. The result has been that I am not heard there today. There is always the possibility of starting an eBook list that does not have such "moderation" techniques, but something else would have to be done to keep that sort of thing from happening. . . . Perhaps just an automated warning that precedes notes from "moderated" individuals that says things like: "Jon Noring would like to warn you that this message is from someone he considers to be infra dignatorum." ;-) mh On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > jon noring said: >> Michael Hart is on moderation, >> as most of the others on TeBC. > > unless something has changed recently, > the headers clearly show michael's posts > have had to be "approved" before posting. > > except for the occasional new subscriber, > nobody else's headers show such "approval" > was required before the message was posted. > > whether this enforced moderation constitutes > "censorship" or not depends on how we choose > to define the word. but my best guess is that > michael feels that his voice is being silenced... > > and of course i've been _banned_outright_ from > jon's listserve, for many years now. he will tell you > that's because i was "rude" or some such nonsense. > everyone knows it's because he wanted to silence me, > because my comments gummed up his hype machine. > > -bowerbird > From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Apr 11 08:18:58 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:19:09 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship Message-ID: <65.589f11f9.316d22e2@aol.com> michael said: > I should add that not only does Jon Noring censor me > to a greater extent that I am aware of him censoring > any others, he also makes efforts to get me censored > on other lists by starting flame wars and then he is > the first to say that _I_ am the cause. he's just done the same thing to me over on teleread. oh well, as it was a waste of my time and energy to be over there balancing the rothman/noring spin machine -- because hype tends to be "self-correcting" anyway -- i figure he has done me one big favor... :+) -bowerbird p.s. my resolution for 2006 was to stop commenting on teleread anyway, and i succeeded for almost two months, but i slipped one day and have been commenting since. but the "moderation" thing -- by the way, it was _branko_ who david selected to be my "moderator", funny, eh? -- will mean that i stop posting there entirely, which means my attention will be refocused on more important things, things that _do_ matter... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060411/42cd7285/attachment-0001.html From hart at pglaf.org Tue Apr 11 08:20:09 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:20:10 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Apologies Message-ID: It would appeare that Jon Noring's fix of my subscription came through effective at just about the same time I was writing my comments about that. So. . .my apologies. . .and my thanks. . . . Michael From jon at noring.name Tue Apr 11 08:22:35 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:22:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship In-Reply-To: References: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> Message-ID: <526136689.20060411092235@noring.name> Michael Hart wrote: > I should add that not only does Jon Noring censor me > to a greater extent that I am aware of him censoring > any others, he also makes efforts to get me censored > on other lists by starting flame wars and then he is > the first to say that _I_ am the cause. > By the way, this is common practice among flamers. ??? What can I say about these charges? If others here, besides Bowerbird of course, believe Michael to be correct in his assessment of me, I'd like to hear your criticisms. These are certainly serious charges, and coming from the founder of PG makes them more serious. Jon Noring From hart at pglaf.org Tue Apr 11 08:26:30 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:26:32 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] !@!Your subscription to ebook-community has been changed (fwd) Message-ID: Perhaps I spoke too soon. . .it would appear that once again odd things are happening to my sub. mh ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 11 Apr 2006 15:21:26 -0000 From: Yahoo! Groups Notification To: hart@pglaf.org Subject: Your subscription to ebook-community has been changed Hello, This is to inform you that your request to change your subscription to ebook-community to the "No Mail/Web Only" mode has been completed. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From jon at noring.name Tue Apr 11 08:31:15 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:31:25 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship In-Reply-To: References: <319.25b8993.316c1447@aol.com> Message-ID: <727994029.20060411093115@noring.name> Michael wrote: > Lately my subscription underwent a dozen changes for > a week's period and I mentioned this multiple times, > but have had no responses. > > The result has been that I am not heard there today. Btw, I forgot to reply to this comment. Michael, I did reply to your email to me justifiably complaining about your delivery settings to TeBC being changed several times a day (delivery would change from normal, to no delivery, etc.) As I noted in my private reply to Michael, YahooGroups has had problems with spambots sending email to the various group addresses used for resetting delivery options, and spoofing the 'From:' header. So, some spambot was sending out emails which look like they came from Michael, requesting a change in message delivery on TeBC. Two other TeBC subscribers have had this happen to them in the last year, so fortunately it is rare, but for those who are affected is a very annoying problem. > There is always the possibility of starting an eBook > list that does not have such "moderation" techniques, > but something else would have to be done to keep that > sort of thing from happening. . . . > > Perhaps just an automated warning that precedes notes > from "moderated" individuals that says things like: > > "Jon Noring would like to warn you that this message > is from someone he considers to be infra dignatorum." Er, that's a low blow. :^) Jon From jon at noring.name Tue Apr 11 08:35:30 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:35:39 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] !@!Your subscription to ebook-community has been changed (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1812444173.20060411093530@noring.name> Michael wrote: > Perhaps I spoke too soon. . .it would appear that once again > odd things are happening to my sub. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: 11 Apr 2006 15:21:26 -0000 > From: Yahoo! Groups Notification > To: hart@pglaf.org > Subject: Your subscription to ebook-community has been changed > > Hello, > > This is to inform you that your request to change your > subscription to ebook-community to the "No Mail/Web Only" > mode has been completed. > > Regards, > > Yahoo! Groups Customer Care > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ This is definitely an annoying problem. As I noted in my private reply to Michael a few days ago, Yahoo could easily solve this problem by requiring confirmation for all such requests. At the present, the only thing Michael could do would be to resubscribe to TeBC using another email address. Yes, it is not the best solution. Jon From hart at pglaf.org Tue Apr 11 08:39:36 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Apr 11 08:39:38 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] re: censorship In-Reply-To: <65.589f11f9.316d22e2@aol.com> References: <65.589f11f9.316d22e2@aol.com> Message-ID: Not that I think either Bowerbird or Noring doesn't get enough say, but I realize they probably think the same thing about me. . .BUT!! We are in a SAD state when tactics and strategies of such transparent sandbox natures are effective.... Michael On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > michael said: >> I should add that not only does Jon Noring censor me >> to a greater extent that I am aware of him censoring >> any others, he also makes efforts to get me censored >> on other lists by starting flame wars and then he is >> the first to say that _I_ am the cause. > > he's just done the same thing to me over on teleread. > > oh well, as it was a waste of my time and energy to be > over there balancing the rothman/noring spin machine > -- because hype tends to be "self-correcting" anyway -- > i figure he has done me one big favor... :+) > > -bowerbird > > p.s. my resolution for 2006 was to stop commenting on > teleread anyway, and i succeeded for almost two months, > but i slipped one day and have been commenting since. > but the "moderation" thing -- by the way, it was _branko_ > who david selected to be my "moderator", funny, eh? -- > will mean that i stop posting there entirely, which means > my attention will be refocused on more important things, > things that _do_ matter... > From dalereese at fastmail.fm Tue Apr 11 09:14:03 2006 From: dalereese at fastmail.fm (Dale Reese) Date: Tue Apr 11 09:14:26 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] in his own words -- unbelievable Message-ID: <1144772043.29688.258850778@webmail.messagingengine.com> i chuckle everytime bowerbird chirps. he believes no one heeds his golden wisdom. after all, bowerbird knows everything. he is always right. we are the stupid ones. he alone knows what's best for us. he is above us all. he is god. in his own words, bowerbird admits his purpose in posting to listserves: http://www.poetrysuperhighway.com/cobalt/090704.pdf "even though he obviously can't get anything to work well himself, bowerbird nonetheless seems to have absolutely no difficulty in butting in and telling other people what _they_ should be doing. since he started doing performance poetry, he has been telling los angeles poetry producers that they should try to concentrate the community's resources rather than diluting its critical mass. absolutely no one ever listened to him. (or realize he was right.) for years he was a thorn in the national slam family, using their own listserve (which he had helped bring about and make a success) to tell them exactly what they were doing wrong. in explicit detail. with convincing argument after convincing argument. day after day. until they had no choice but to ban him from the listserve, thereby fully demonstrating the depth of their commitment to free speech. that wasn't the first listserve from which bowerbird has been banned. and it probably won't be the last either... some people just never learn. even though (as is clearly evidenced here), once he actually gets going, it is extremely difficult to shut him up, it nonetheless remains true that bowerbird is very uncomfortable talking about himself in the third person -- which is why he rarely writes a bio -- so he will stop doing that now, and he will go have a sandwich because he is kind of hungry right now..." so bowerbird got kicked off a listserve he helped create?! oh! the injustice of it all. if they only knew he was there to lift them from oblivion. -- Dale Reese dalereese@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web From hart at pglaf.org Tue Apr 11 09:51:08 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Apr 11 09:51:09 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] !@!Your subscription to ebook-community has been changed (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1812444173.20060411093530@noring.name> References: <1812444173.20060411093530@noring.name> Message-ID: Sorry, never got your note. Anything we can do with Yahoo to protect the settings??? mh On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Jon Noring wrote: > Michael wrote: > >> Perhaps I spoke too soon. . .it would appear that once again >> odd things are happening to my sub. >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: 11 Apr 2006 15:21:26 -0000 >> From: Yahoo! Groups Notification >> To: hart@pglaf.org >> Subject: Your subscription to ebook-community has been changed >> >> Hello, >> >> This is to inform you that your request to change your >> subscription to ebook-community to the "No Mail/Web Only" >> mode has been completed. >> >> Regards, >> >> Yahoo! Groups Customer Care >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > This is definitely an annoying problem. As I noted in my private reply > to Michael a few days ago, Yahoo could easily solve this problem by > requiring confirmation for all such requests. > > At the present, the only thing Michael could do would be to > resubscribe to TeBC using another email address. Yes, it is not the > best solution. > > Jon > From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Apr 11 09:57:51 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 11 09:57:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] in his own words -- unbelievable Message-ID: <312.2911a9c.316d3a0f@aol.com> dale reese said: > so bowerbird got kicked off a listserve he helped create?! yep, i sure did. pretty ironic, eh? maybe i should have kept the moderator privileges... ;+) by the way, does anyone know who "dale reese" is? i'd like to find out. since he informed me what one of my passwords was on an account, i suspect that he might have hacked into my system somehow; i'd like to know who might do that type of thing, and it's not like i'm overly paranoid or anything, i was just wondering if anyone knows who he is. by the way, i wrote that up for a broadside, for a series of them created by rick lupert, a los angeles poet and poetry producer... as an amazing coincidence, rick is celebrating the _100th_ broadside in his series _tonight_... rick does some good work, so i encourage you to check it out. he'll also be offering a bunch of poetry chapbooks in electronic-form very soon, on his website, if you would be interested in that: > http://www.poetrysuperhighway.com he'll be offering e-chapbooks from _many_ poets, but i can unequivocally recommend rick's own .pdf, in advance, because he has a funny sense of humor, and he's an excellent graphic designer as well, plus he knows how to set up a .pdf _correctly_... so if you want to see how it should be done, check rick's .pdf, and get some dry wit as part of the deal... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060411/c8de1471/attachment.html From tstowell at chattanooga.net Tue Apr 11 09:42:27 2006 From: tstowell at chattanooga.net (Tim Stowell) Date: Tue Apr 11 09:59:40 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Clarification please Message-ID: <40672.66.129.5.5.1144773747.squirrel@webmail.chattanooga.net> I'd like a simple explanation please of the way items are contributed to the Project. In other words does the project accept transcripts of text from a book / work? Or are the requirements that the text be broken down by page number, notated, with footnotes if any, at the bottom of the page? If it is the former I can contribute immediately. If it is the latter, I'll need some guidance. Thanks, ------------------------------------------------------via webmail---- Tim Stowell tstowell@chattanooga.net From jon at noring.name Tue Apr 11 10:12:03 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Tue Apr 11 10:12:15 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] !@!Your subscription to ebook-community has been changed (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <1812444173.20060411093530@noring.name> Message-ID: <1066380232.20060411111203@noring.name> Michael wrote: > Sorry, never got your note. > > Anything we can do with Yahoo to protect the settings??? When I checked last week, there did not appear a way for one to lock in the delivery settings, unfortunately. I plan to post a message to the YahooGroups leaders board asking (again) for Yahoo to do something. In the meanwhile, you might consider setting up another email account at pglaf.org (such as 'mhart@') and use that to subscribe to TeBC. Yes, it's a pain in the butt, but that should solve it. Since only three TeBC subscribers (out of almost 3000) have had this problem the last year, it is quite rare, fortunately, so the odds are this simple change will fix the problem on your end. Jon From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Tue Apr 11 12:09:04 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Tue Apr 11 12:09:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Clarification please In-Reply-To: <40672.66.129.5.5.1144773747.squirrel@webmail.chattanooga.net> References: <40672.66.129.5.5.1144773747.squirrel@webmail.chattanooga.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:42:27 -0400 (EDT), "Tim Stowell" wrote: |I'd like a simple explanation please of the way items are contributed to |the Project. | |In other words does the project accept transcripts of text from a book / |work? Or are the requirements that the text be broken down by page number, |notated, with footnotes if any, at the bottom of the page? | |If it is the former I can contribute immediately. If it is the latter, |I'll need some guidance. I change them into endnotes, as described below: The PG FAQ is *voluminous* http://www.gutenberg.org/faq/ http://www.gutenberg.org/faq/V-103 >>> V.103. How should I treat footnotes? In a printed text, the most common treatment for footnotes is to put them at the end of the page to which they refer. Sometimes, editors gather them all at the end of the book. Footnotes are a real formatting problem for an eBook without defined physical pages; there is no agreement between readers about which is the best way to render them. There are three basic ways of rendering footnotes in an e-text: You can insert them right into the text, in brackets, at the point in the paragraph where they occur, with or without an indication that they were originally footnotes. This is only reasonable in a text with very short footnotes. You can insert them after the paragraph to which they refer, either contiguous with the paragraph or as a new "paragraph" of their own, as I am doing with this one. If the text contains any footnotes longer than a line, [1] you should not try to just append them to the paragraph; you should make a new "paragraph" of them, with a blank line before and after. [1] Some footnotes can go on not only for several lines, but for several pages! You can gather all footnotes at the end of the e-text, or to the end of the chapter to which they refer. Of these three, gathering all footnotes to the end of the chapter or the end of the whole text is probably the friendliest option, since it preserves the original intention of allowing the reader to continue reading the main text without interruption. However, it may involve some renumbering and general note-keeping on your part, and may not be needed where there are only a few short footnotes. You can see an ideal example of this kind of footnote marking in our edition of Darwin's "The Voyage of the Beagle", file vbgle10.txt from 1997, Etext number 944, which you can get from: <<< -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain From kloro at cox.net Tue Apr 11 14:23:00 2006 From: kloro at cox.net (tom arnall) Date: Tue Apr 11 14:18:18 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' Message-ID: <200604111423.00266.kloro@cox.net> how do you do a search for works published before 1978? at the LOC site i could find a search facility only for works published after 1978. i would like to get copyright info for other works by lasker. thanks, tom arnall north spit, ca > > On Sunday 09 April 2006 05:36 pm, tom arnall wrote: > > > >>I am interested in creating a Gutenberg book of Emanuel Lasker's 'Lasker's > >>Manual of Chess.' > > D Garcia wrote: > > > > The earliest edition I find of this in a quick LOC search is 1927, so at a > > glance it's still under copyright in the US, and not eligible for PG. > > > From kloro at cox.net Tue Apr 11 14:26:49 2006 From: kloro at cox.net (tom arnall) Date: Tue Apr 11 14:22:08 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: 'Lasker's Manual of Chess' In-Reply-To: <20060411151911.5A26E8C99F@pglaf.org> References: <20060411151911.5A26E8C99F@pglaf.org> Message-ID: <200604111426.49694.kloro@cox.net> how do i find out about publishing lasker's book via PG Australia? thanks, tom arnall north spit, ca On Tuesday 11 April 2006 08:19 am, gutvol-d-request@lists.pglaf.org wrote: > Yesterday 06:37:34 pm > ? > > > On Sunday 09 April 2006 05:36 pm, tom arnall wrote: > >>I am interested in creating a Gutenberg book of Emanuel Lasker's > >> 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' > > D Garcia wrote: > > The earliest edition I find of this in a quick LOC search is 1927, so at > > a glance it's still under copyright in the US, and not eligible for PG. > > Emanuel Lasker (1868-1941) is most likely fair game for PG Australia. > > ============================================================ > Gardner Buchanan ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > Ottawa, ON ? ? ? ? ? ? FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. > > End of encapsulated message From grythumn at gmail.com Tue Apr 11 14:34:10 2006 From: grythumn at gmail.com (Robert Cicconetti) Date: Tue Apr 11 14:41:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' In-Reply-To: <200604111423.00266.kloro@cox.net> References: <200604111423.00266.kloro@cox.net> Message-ID: <15cfa2a50604111434xbcc5e75wbec3a2aaac0e7199@mail.gmail.com> For books, I'd suggest using the rutgers' search engine for quick checks, and then PG 11800 for the full check. http://www.scils.rutgers.edu/~lesk/copyrenew.html There is also an updated Rule 6 howto on pglaf: http://copy.pglaf.org/rule6-new.txt R C On 4/11/06, tom arnall wrote: > > how do you do a search for works published before 1978? at the LOC site i > could find a search facility only for works published after 1978. i would > like to get copyright info for other works by lasker. > > thanks, > > tom arnall > north spit, ca > > > > > > On Sunday 09 April 2006 05:36 pm, tom arnall wrote: > > > > > >>I am interested in creating a Gutenberg book of Emanuel Lasker's > 'Lasker's > > >>Manual of Chess.' > > > > D Garcia wrote: > > > > > > The earliest edition I find of this in a quick LOC search is 1927, so > at a > > > glance it's still under copyright in the US, and not eligible for PG. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060411/37f02ac6/attachment.html From dlainson at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 11 14:30:14 2006 From: dlainson at sympatico.ca (dlainson@sympatico.ca) Date: Tue Apr 11 14:47:11 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: 'Lasker's Manual of Chess' In-Reply-To: <200604111426.49694.kloro@cox.net> References: <20060411151911.5A26E8C99F@pglaf.org> Message-ID: You can write to Colin at: Colin Choat > how do i find out about publishing lasker's book via PG Australia? > > > thanks, > > tom arnall > north spit, ca > > > On Tuesday 11 April 2006 08:19 am, gutvol-d-request@lists.pglaf.org > wrote: > Yesterday 06:37:34 pm > ?? > > > On Sunday 09 April 2006 > 05:36 pm, tom arnall wrote: > >>I am interested in creating a > Gutenberg book of Emanuel Lasker's > >> 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' > > > D Garcia wrote: > > The earliest edition I find of this in a quick > LOC search is 1927, so at > > a glance it's still under copyright in > the US, and not eligible for PG. > > Emanuel Lasker (1868-1941) is > most likely fair game for PG Australia. > > > ============================================================ > Gardner > Buchanan ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? > > Ottawa, ON ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. > > > End of encapsulated message > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d Don Lainson dlainson@sympatico.ca From greg at durendal.org Wed Apr 12 05:09:21 2006 From: greg at durendal.org (Greg Weeks) Date: Wed Apr 12 05:30:03 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' In-Reply-To: <200604111423.00266.kloro@cox.net> References: <200604111423.00266.kloro@cox.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, tom arnall wrote: > how do you do a search for works published before 1978? at the LOC site i > could find a search facility only for works published after 1978. i would > like to get copyright info for other works by lasker. The Catalog of Copyright entries has most of the pre-1978 data. PG has the books renewals section transcribed. http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/11800 For things other than books, to include contributions to periodicals the online books page has some more. http://digital.library.upenn.edu/books/cce/ If they don't have it, you have to go to a deposit library and look it up on paper, or pay a fee to the Library of Congress to have them do a search. (There are others that will do a search for a fee as well)4 -- Greg Weeks http://durendal.org:8080/greg/ From greg at durendal.org Wed Apr 12 05:12:33 2006 From: greg at durendal.org (Greg Weeks) Date: Wed Apr 12 05:30:05 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question Message-ID: I just noticed that the last posting for H. Beam Piper ended up in its own author section instead of with the rest of the Piper works. Piper, H. Beam * Time Crime (English) Piper, Henry Beam, 1904-1964 * Wikipedia * Genesis (English) * Graveyard of Dreams (English) * Little Fuzzy (English) * Murder in the Gunroom (English) Is there any way to get these merged into a single author section? Preferably with a search for either name hitting the same author section in the catalog. -- Greg Weeks http://durendal.org:8080/greg/ From marcello at perathoner.de Wed Apr 12 08:09:20 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Wed Apr 12 08:09:26 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> Greg Weeks wrote: > > I just noticed that the last posting for H. Beam Piper ended up in its > own author section instead of with the rest of the Piper works. > > Piper, H. Beam > > * Time Crime (English) > > Piper, Henry Beam, 1904-1964 > > * Wikipedia > * Genesis (English) > * Graveyard of Dreams (English) > * Little Fuzzy (English) > * Murder in the Gunroom (English) > > Is there any way to get these merged into a single author section? > Preferably with a search for either name hitting the same author section > in the catalog. 1. You should direct your catalog questions to catalog@pglaf.org 2. Aforementioned phenomenon happens because the automagic catalog script just reads the ebook header to get at the author. If the spelling is different from the spelling already in the database a duplicate author entry will be created. To avoid this, just search the gutenberg catalog before posting your ebook and if you find your author make sure your spelling is *exactly* the same. 3. I will fix this right now and tomorrow new pages will be created. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From sly at victoria.tc.ca Wed Apr 12 08:48:03 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Wed Apr 12 08:48:05 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> References: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> Message-ID: I'm not sure that I would agree that people producing the text should try to make the author name they are submitting "exactly the same" as what already appears in the PG catalog. There has never been an agreement (that I am aware of) on what the metadata in the PG header is supposed to be... An exact transcription of material on the title page? A "working title" (and author), used as the file is being processed? A LoC-style heading? All three of these are different things. In my experience having someone who is not used to the dealing with the catalog trying to make cataloging descions can only lead to more confusion. Andrew On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > > 1. You should direct your catalog questions to catalog@pglaf.org > > 2. Aforementioned phenomenon happens because the automagic catalog > script just reads the ebook header to get at the author. If the spelling > is different from the spelling already in the database a duplicate > author entry will be created. To avoid this, just search the gutenberg > catalog before posting your ebook and if you find your author make sure > your spelling is *exactly* the same. > > 3. I will fix this right now and tomorrow new pages will be created. > From greg at durendal.org Wed Apr 12 09:04:04 2006 From: greg at durendal.org (Greg Weeks) Date: Wed Apr 12 09:04:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> References: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > 2. Aforementioned phenomenon happens because the automagic catalog script > just reads the ebook header to get at the author. If the spelling is > different from the spelling already in the database a duplicate author entry That's kind of what I'd guessed happened. > will be created. To avoid this, just search the gutenberg catalog before > posting your ebook and if you find your author make sure your spelling is > *exactly* the same. I'm not posting them. I'm just PMing them at DP. -- Greg Weeks http://durendal.org:8080/greg/ From marcello at perathoner.de Wed Apr 12 09:45:16 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Wed Apr 12 09:45:21 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: References: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <443D2E9C.9050009@perathoner.de> Andrew Sly wrote: > I'm not sure that I would agree that people producing the text > should try to make the author name they are submitting > "exactly the same" as what already appears in the PG catalog. Why not? It seems the logical thing to do. If they don't, somebody on the catalog team will have to edit the author name later. > In my experience having someone who is not used to the > dealing with the catalog trying to make cataloging descions > can only lead to more confusion. Nobody asked to make decisions. Only to copy the author name exactly as in the catalog, of course after making sure that it is indeed the same author. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From sly at victoria.tc.ca Wed Apr 12 10:24:19 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Wed Apr 12 10:24:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: <443D2E9C.9050009@perathoner.de> References: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> <443D2E9C.9050009@perathoner.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > Andrew Sly wrote: > > > I'm not sure that I would agree that people producing the text > > should try to make the author name they are submitting > > "exactly the same" as what already appears in the PG catalog. > > Why not? It seems the logical thing to do. If they don't, somebody on > the catalog team will have to edit the author name later. Well, if we're going to have any reasonable kind of catalog, every record has to be checked manually anyway. > > In my experience having someone who is not used to the > > dealing with the catalog trying to make cataloging descions > > can only lead to more confusion. > > Nobody asked to make decisions. Only to copy the author name exactly as > in the catalog, of course after making sure that it is indeed the same > author. I'm afraid it's not quite that simple. Anyone who types out some author or title, which is then copied into the PG header, which is then automatically copied into the catalog, is making cataloging descisions whether they know it or not. I've seen a few cases where it seems that information could be getting garbled as it passes through the hands of different people involved in getting a text into PG. For an example from today, here is part of an email I sent just ten minutes ago: Ok, I'm a little confused here. As near as I can make out, this is an account by Henry Charles Mahoney of his time as a German prisoner-of-war. His papers were then edited into book form or, as the text says, "Chronicled by" Frederick Talbot. When this text was submitted, Frederick Arthur Ambrose Talbot was listed as creator, and Henry Charles Mahoney as Editor. Would there be any objection if I switched those around? Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:52:47 -0700 Subject: [posted] Posted (#18134, Talbot) ! To: posted@lists.pglaf.org Message-ID: <20060409185247.GA7225@pglaf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sixteen Months in Four German Prisons,by Frederick Arthur Ambrose Talbot 18134 [Editor: Henry Charles Mahoney] [Subtitle: Wesel, Sennelager, Klingelputz, Ruhleben] [Link: http://www.gutenberg.org/1/8/1/3/18134 ] [Files: 18134.txt; 18134-8.txt; 18134-h.htm; ] [Clearance: 20051019064205talbot] From prosfilaes at gmail.com Wed Apr 12 12:13:16 2006 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Wed Apr 12 12:13:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: 'Lasker's Manual of Chess.' In-Reply-To: <200604111423.00266.kloro@cox.net> References: <200604111423.00266.kloro@cox.net> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0604121213k566ca3adk425158fe49379f24@mail.gmail.com> On 4/11/06, tom arnall wrote: > how do you do a search for works published before 1978? at the LOC site i > could find a search facility only for works published after 1978. i would > like to get copyright info for other works by lasker. 1978 is not important here; Emanuel Lasker was a German, meaning that for his books to be out of copyright means that they were first published in the US, which is really hard to prove. From jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph Wed Apr 12 13:36:07 2006 From: jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph (Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account)) Date: Wed Apr 12 13:35:39 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: References: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> <443D2E9C.9050009@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <443D64B7.5080803@bohol.ph> Andrew Sly wrote: >On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > > > >>Andrew Sly wrote: >> >> >> >>>I'm not sure that I would agree that people producing the text >>>should try to make the author name they are submitting >>>"exactly the same" as what already appears in the PG catalog. >>> >>> >> I think it is good practice to list the author name in the catalog the same way it appears on the title page. Easy, straightforward, and a pain in the * for people who like normalized databases.... We should still link to a record that carries details for the author, and actually tells us that the author of Book A is the same as that of Book B, even though the name is different. Jeroen. From jon at noring.name Wed Apr 12 13:50:30 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Wed Apr 12 13:50:39 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: <443D64B7.5080803@bohol.ph> References: <443D1820.2040403@perathoner.de> <443D2E9C.9050009@perathoner.de> <443D64B7.5080803@bohol.ph> Message-ID: <512399968.20060412145030@noring.name> Jeroen wrote: > I think it is good practice to list the author name in the catalog the > same way it appears on the title page. Easy, straightforward, and a pain > in the * for people who like normalized databases.... One approach is OEBPS' use of Dublin Core, where for each creator/contributor, both may be included: the name as it appears in the publication, and a normalized name using the "file-as" attribute. As an aside, the OEBPS approach of creator/contributor, and the use of the "role"/"file-as" attributes should be looked at for the PG catalog/database. See: http://www.openebook.org/oebps/oebps1.2/download/oeb12-xhtml.htm#sec2.2.6 > We should still link to a record that carries details for the author, > and actually tells us that the author of Book A is the same as that of > Book B, even though the name is different. Interesting. Of course, using a normalized name (along with the birth/death years) is an excellent way to remove almost all ambiguity and result in something that is eminently machine readable. I suppose one could use some established catalogs (like the LoC) for coming up with normalized names. Since the PG corpus is still relatively small (compared to most libraries), it would not take too long for a few librarians to once and for all normalize the author/contributor names for each Work. It's simply a matter of deciding to do so, and making sure the effort is not sabotaged later on. (Of course, MARC records from established catalogs may also be imported and used.) Jon Noring From radicks at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 12 16:12:24 2006 From: radicks at bellsouth.net (Dick Adicks) Date: Wed Apr 12 17:28:55 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question Message-ID: Library cataloguers have been handling this problem since time immemorial with "See" and "See also" references. The author's name on the PG book should be the same as the name on the title page. Dick Adicks From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Apr 12 17:45:11 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 12 17:45:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question Message-ID: <326.1e69f49.316ef917@aol.com> dick said: > The author's name on the PG book > should be the same as the name on the title page. i agree with dick. but that's not the end of the story. at the point in the file where the title page is, the name that is located there should obviously "be the same as the name on the title page"... plus, at _some_ point in the file, there should _also_ be the name as it occurs in the authority file you use. project gutenberg _is_ using an authority file, isn't it? also, google indexes only the first 100k of a file, so _all_ forms of the author's name (even those that are neither on the title-page nor the one in your authority file) should appear in the first 100k... that's the right answer, from your resident know-it-all. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060412/f9fb6346/attachment.html From davedoty at hotmail.com Wed Apr 12 19:31:46 2006 From: davedoty at hotmail.com (Dave Doty) Date: Wed Apr 12 19:48:52 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Catalog Subjects Message-ID: While we're on the subject of catalog issues... I noticed a while back that many of the books I was interested in were not always listed in the catalog subjects where they would be appropriate, or not put in appropriate subcategories. (For example, I'm a history buff, and many history texts are either not listed under history, or not listed under a subcategory of time, place, or event that would be useful to searchers.) Is there a way that we can add subjects to works and/or create new subject subcategories, or at least submit them for approval? Obviously, an attempt at a comprehensive subject system would be formidable if not impossible, but at least if volunteers/users can update individually, it can get more fleshed out. I dug around the website, but if there's a discussion for this, I missed it. Dave Doty From prosfilaes at gmail.com Wed Apr 12 20:14:46 2006 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Wed Apr 12 20:14:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0604122014u4e9390d8wa750adaa82e761b4@mail.gmail.com> On 4/12/06, Dick Adicks wrote: > Library cataloguers have been handling this problem since time immemorial > with "See" and "See also" references. The author's name on the PG book > should be the same as the name on the title page. Library cataloguers have been sorting books under one unified name for a long time. The Library of Congress, for example, has empty "See" references to the normalized name. To do otherwise is extra complexity; 99% of the time it will just be a variation on which initials are expanded, and the author's name is likely to get varied among otherwise trivial editions. From sly at victoria.tc.ca Wed Apr 12 22:22:57 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Wed Apr 12 22:23:02 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG catalog question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Dick Adicks wrote: > Library cataloguers have been handling this problem since time immemorial > with "See" and "See also" references. The author's name on the PG book > should be the same as the name on the title page. > > Dick Adicks The phrase "author's name on the PG book" is rather ambiguous. For the purposes of Project Gutenberg, places you see the author's name are: 1) In the asterisk line at the very beginning of a PG file (sometimes in shortened form) 2) In the PG header metadata 3) In the "title page area" (usually, but not always) 4) In the "posted note" which officially announces a new release 5) In the gutindex list 6) In the PG online catalog Andrew From sly at victoria.tc.ca Wed Apr 12 22:38:10 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Wed Apr 12 22:38:15 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG texts in South Africa Message-ID: Here's another example of PG texts being used. http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=961 From hart at pglaf.org Thu Apr 13 09:25:19 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Thu Apr 13 09:25:20 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG texts in South Africa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can't seem to find an email address that works for them. Any help? Thanks! Michael On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Andrew Sly wrote: > Here's another example of PG texts being used. > > http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=961 > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From lee at novomail.net Thu Apr 13 10:09:25 2006 From: lee at novomail.net (Lee Passey) Date: Thu Apr 13 11:08:18 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG texts in South Africa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443E85C5.8080509@novomail.net> Michael Hart wrote: > On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Andrew Sly wrote: > > > Here's another example of PG texts being used. > > > > http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=961 > > > > I can't seem to find an email address that works for them. > > Any help? > > Thanks! > > Michael Managing Director Denis Brandjes Mail: denis@getopenlab.com Cell: +27-82-940-9730 Skype: denisbrandjes Jabber: denis@jabberafrica.org Chief Software Architect A.J. Venter Mail: aj@getopenlab.com Cell: +27 82 726 5103 Skype: silentcoder Jabber: silentcoder@jabberafrica.org It took me four mouse clicks to get this information. Did these addresses fail? From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Apr 13 12:32:04 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 13 12:32:12 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG texts in South Africa Message-ID: <2f0.3cc63f3.31700134@aol.com> hey windows people, do please let me know if this viewer-program is any good, and i'll check it out... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060413/d3fab7e9/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Apr 13 12:53:46 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 13 12:53:57 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] don't believe everything you read on the internets Message-ID: <3b7.212f11.3170064a@aol.com> geez, it's _so_ boring to talk about me, but i figure you deserve to know how the teleread censorship thing has played out. the last 3-4 comments i sent to teleread were "flagged" for "review by an administrator" as "spam" and have never appeared. they weren't controversial comments, just me finishing a few threads in case i was banned. so it appears to me my hall pass has been revoked... but meanwhile, rothman is posting comments saying i am "welcome" there (albeit with huge reservations), and that no one is being censored or even moderated. so don't believe everything you read on the internets! i don't know how to resolve the discrepancy here... perhaps he's willing to tell a great big lie in order to save a little bit of face. or maybe it's "a coincidence" that all of a sudden my comments stopped appearing. whatever the case may be, it's clear that rothman wants only "yes-men" on his blog, and i am not one of those, so i see no need for me to be there, thank you very much. as i told you, my new year's resolution for 2006 was to stop wasting time and energy commenting on his blog. and i actually succeeded for two months, then relapsed when he was in the midst of a campaign to give readers the impression that openreader was _the_ way to get a publicly-shared annotation capability. (it might be _one_ way, but it's certainly not the only way, not by a long shot.) so any uncertainty about whether i've been banned or not doesn't really matter, because i'd just as soon not be there. i am certainly not going to "submit" comments that might never appear, and might have been "edited" when they do. so the banning is helping me to keep my resolution! :+) oh, that doesn't mean i'm going to stop puncturing the hype put out by the rothman/noring spin machine. it just means that i will not be doing it where they control my microphone. it's so silly to think that they can silence me by banning me! cyberspace has no shortage of soapboxes, and branko won't be able to edit me or delete me when i use my own soapbox. but i'll be sure to let the world know he _would_, if he _could_, as demonstrated by the fact that he already _did_... oh, for the record, branko's "editing" consisted of three things. first, he removed my linebreaks; might or might not seem significant to you, but that's irrelevant, it's significant to me; you don't mess with a poet's linebreaks. second, he removed my z.m.l.-style _styling_ markers and replaced them with actual styling. (bold in the one instance.) finally, he uppercased some of my letters. that's a huge no-no. i write my posts the way i do as an expression of my individuality. if anyone thinks i will tolerate their "editing" out that individuality, they're wrong. but even more to the point, _no_one_ should have their comments on a blog be "edited" by the blog's owners. ever. anyway, it will be nice to go back to keeping my 2006 resolution! moreover, it will be fun to pull back my "reality check" and watch, as the rothman/noring machine might spin itself out of control... rothman's delusions are grandly entertaining, i must say. for instance, today he's got an entry saying that there is an "apparent plot to subvert openreader" by adobe and a whole cast of other parties who are "doing all they can to preempt openreader". i bet few of you even knew that this app -- which won't even be released until summer -- is so threatening that it's stirred up secret plans at adobe, and maybe sony, microsoft, and who knows? check it out: > http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=4647 i don't know about you, but paranoia _this_ grandiose is tremendously amusing to me! heck, it makes me wish i would have been _egging_him_on_ all along, instead of providing a calm and rational counterbalance to his hype. i bet it'd be easy to find "evidence" that supports his fears, because he seems willing to believe some crazy things... it's too late for _me_ to do that now, but if _someone_else_ were to feed his hysteria, it might create some fun reading! ah, the world of e-books. what an interesting "community". :+) anyway, i am sorry to disturb all you fine people digitizing books. you can return to your important work now. thanks for your time. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060413/b0bfa25a/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Apr 13 13:39:23 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 13 13:39:35 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] the emergence of the "site-specific browser" Message-ID: <362.25f477b.317010fb@aol.com> there's a new mac app called "pyro" available here: > http://www.karppinen.fi/pyro/ as it says on the site, pyro > demonstrates a new breed of applications > we call site-specific browsers?apps that are > about making a browser-based application > better with client-side technology while > keeping the user interface intact. pyro works with "campfire", a web-based chat service. this kind of application -- one that runs on the users own machines, but connects them with the web -- is how many e-book viewers of the future will be oriented. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060413/bc1c0015/attachment.html From jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph Thu Apr 13 14:42:18 2006 From: jeroen.mailinglist at bohol.ph (Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account)) Date: Thu Apr 13 14:40:56 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Catalog Subjects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443EC5BA.9050504@bohol.ph> Here you potentially open up a can of worms.... When we can't even agree on how to deal with author names, adding a subject catalog and classification system on top of our database will cause even more controversy... I much favour to have a powerful search engine index our complete texts, and rely on that for research; but agree that a good subject catalogue can help in locating books on a certain subject, especially to help people who like to browse to find works... In this digital age, we can easily file books under any relevant subject at the same time (no physical volumes that can only stand in one place); so such things as Dewey or LoC carry historical load we don't need. We should go for a nice, multi-facetted, multi-entry classification system for our books, but developing adding that would be a tremendous lot of work... So you can have on title like Foreman's Philippine Islands, 3rd ed. appear under things like: Colonialism Early Twentieth century History Philippines Spanish-American War Etc. Jeroen. Dave Doty wrote: > While we're on the subject of catalog issues... > > I noticed a while back that many of the books I was interested in were > not always listed in the catalog subjects where they would be > appropriate, or not put in appropriate subcategories. (For example, > I'm a history buff, and many history texts are either not listed under > history, or not listed under a subcategory of time, place, or event > that would be useful to searchers.) > > Is there a way that we can add subjects to works and/or create new > subject subcategories, or at least submit them for approval? > Obviously, an attempt at a comprehensive subject system would be > formidable if not impossible, but at least if volunteers/users can > update individually, it can get more fleshed out. > > I dug around the website, but if there's a discussion for this, I > missed it. > > Dave Doty > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From jon at noring.name Thu Apr 13 15:59:22 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Thu Apr 13 15:59:58 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] don't believe everything you read on the internets In-Reply-To: <3b7.212f11.3170064a@aol.com> References: <3b7.212f11.3170064a@aol.com> Message-ID: <1197583645.20060413165922@noring.name> Bowerbird wrote: > the last 3-4 comments i sent to teleread were "flagged" > for "review by an administrator" as "spam" and have > never appeared.? they weren't controversial comments, > just me finishing a few threads in case i was banned. > so it appears to me my hall pass has been revoked... Since David Rothman is up to his eyeballs with something at the moment, he asked me to check into this. It's the first time I've deeply dug under-the-hood of the TeleRead blog application. What a complicated mess! (Not David's fault, just the way WordPress and all the plugins make it.) First of all, you might have privately contacted David first before bothering with the gutvol-d people here in case there was a technical issue, which this appears to be so far. So I'm posting this reply here since you've made a lot of serious accusations. I'd rather not have to, and I'm sure most gutvol'ers would rather we not post this stuff here, either. Second, David said that he has not placed you into a spam filter, and that you still have full comment posting privileges. So he's perplexed as to what the problem is. Now, David did mention that 4-5 hours ago he noticed, out of the several hundred spam messages he gets every day which his two automated spam filters catch (Spam Karma 2 and Akismet Spam), one of your messages. He flagged it as no-spam to be posted, but my check through the comment database for the last several hours did not find it -- so it never did get posted. This may be due to a problem, either with the software, or David didn't do it right (David is not a computer geek, and the software/plugins were clearly designed by geeks for geeks.) 1and1 itself, which hosts the TeleRead blog, has been going berserk the last few days with various types of problems. 1and1 is also slow as molasses because of some ftp server issue that's slowing down PHP to a crawl... Anyway, something strange did go on. The next thing I did was a test, where I posted a test comment using Bowerbird's id (user: bowerbird, email: bowerbird@aol.com). The comment was successfully posted. I then deleted it. This is not a definitive test, since a spam filter can also filter by IP address. Bowerbird, what I urge you to do is to resend one or more of your comments, and let's see what happens. I purged the spam filter results (after looking for your other comments which I did not find), so if your message(s) again get placed into the spam bucket, they will be much easier to see -- it's tough when there are several hundred there. Note that in the last few months, the spam filter logs show they caught 54,141 spam messages, while there were 2074 legitimate comments !!! That means for every legitimate comment, there are over 25 spam messages. David has limited time to scan the entire spam messages (on occasion he finds a legitimate comment), so it is entirely possible he missed your other 2-3 messages from today. But the problem of why they got put in the spam bucket in the first place, and why one was not "despammed" when found, remains to be determined. And why my test comment was successful while yours earlier were not (assuming you posted them correctly), is also perplexing. So, if you're still interested, post a comment or even a test comment. Also note that Bowerbird is the 3rd most prolific commenter on David's TeleRead blog. > but meanwhile, rothman is posting comments saying > i am "welcome" there (albeit with huge reservations), > and that no one is being censored or even moderated. I've known David for a few years now, and believe what he says. But his patience is definitely wearing thin, and your message here to gutvol-d before checking with him privately has only wore away more of his patience. He will ban you from the TeleRead blog if you continue to foster a hostile community environment by *how* you post, not *what* you post, to the TeleRead blog. > so don't believe everything you read on the internets! Definitely, never believe anything posted anywhere, including to gutvol-d! > i don't know how to resolve the discrepancy here... > perhaps he's willing to tell a great big lie in order to > save a little bit of face.? or maybe it's "a coincidence" > that all of a sudden my comments stopped appearing. Or it's not a lie and there was some technical glitch. Let's resolve it. Or do you want to be a martyr? > whatever the case may be, it's clear that rothman wants > only "yes-men" on his blog, and i am not one of those, > so i see no need for me to be there, thank you very much. For those who are allowed to post articles (not the same as comments), David appears to pick those who are on a similar wavelength and are good writers (he's always been on my case for not writing for the "common folk"). Luminaries such as Branko, Roger Sperberg, Sadi, and several others. That's his prerogative. Cory Doctorow doesn't let just anyone post articles to BoingBoing, but he has his trusted favorites. But when it comes to comments, the only censoring David is doing now is removing clearly spam comments. > and i actually succeeded for two months, then relapsed > when he was in the midst of a campaign to give readers > the impression that openreader was _the_ way to get a > publicly-shared annotation capability.? (it might be _one_ > way, but it's certainly not the only way, not by a long shot.) Actually, I agree with you here. OpenReader/OEBPS definitely enables annotative capability, but other formats may also allow that function. The key is that the format, whatever it is, does not get in the way or make it much more difficult. > so any uncertainty about whether i've been banned or not > doesn't really matter, because i'd just as soon not be there. > i am certainly not going to "submit" comments that might > never appear, and might have been "edited" when they do. > so the banning is helping me to keep my resolution!??????? :+) You've not been banned *yet* from the TeleRead blog, but your out-of-control reply here definitely puts you one step closer to the brink. David does welcome your participation, so long as your messages don't foster a hostile environment. But his patience is wearing thin, just as my patience wore thin when you were on ebook-list (what TeBC was once called) and I had dozens of people asking me to kick you off -- I kept you on for over a year after there was a majority consensus that you should be unsubscribed. I changed the rules of baseball and gave you four strikes, but you still struck out. > oh, that doesn't mean i'm going to stop puncturing the hype > put out by the rothman/noring spin machine.? it just means > that i will not be doing it where they control my microphone. You know, your message is itself full of hype and spin. Sometimes when one points a finger, there are four others pointing back. > it's so silly to think that they can silence me by banning me! > cyberspace has no shortage of soapboxes, and branko won't > be able to edit me or delete me when i use my own soapbox. > but i'll be sure to let the world know he _would_, if he _could_, > as demonstrated by the fact that he already _did_... If you are to be banned, it's because some of your messages tend to create a very negative, hostile environment. Such action (banning) is to protect the integrity of the entire community, not to silence your "message." As I continue to stress, it's not *what* you post, but *how* you post it. David and I would normally be alright with your constant hostile harping towards us personally (it comes with the territory), but such non-rational, hateful harping has a negative impact on the entire community who participate in the blog. As noted before, it creates a hostile environment that inhibits some from participation since how do they know they won't be the next target for no good reason? In essence, your claim that we want to silence your ideas from the whole world is itself spin (hype). It's not what you say, but *how* you say it that we are flagging, and I think many here on gutvol-d would agree. I'm still wondering why you don't cultivate your own blog, where you set the rules and can say pretty much what you want within legal limits. Before long, your blog will undoubtedly get more traffic than the TeleRead blog! > oh, for the record, branko's "editing" consisted of three things. Thanks for clarifying this. > first, he removed my linebreaks;? might or might not seem > significant to you, but that's irrelevant, it's significant to me; > you don't mess with a poet's linebreaks. > > second, he removed my z.m.l.-style _styling_ markers and > replaced them with actual styling.? (bold in the one instance.) > > finally, he uppercased some of my letters.? that's a huge no-no. > > i write my posts the way i do as an expression of my individuality. > if anyone thinks i will tolerate their "editing" out that individuality, > they're wrong.? but even more to the point, _no_one_ should have > their comments on a blog be "edited" by the blog's owners.? ever. As I noted at TeleRead, Branko had the editorial right to do this, especially if it shortened the message and added typographic clarity. Now should he have done this? I don't know, probably not. But it was *his* article, and I have no difficulty with him editing comments in a "typographic" sense in order to increase legibility/readability and meet other goals he had. Now if he trimmed out actual content, actual points you made, then that's another matter. You may claim that how you format your replies *is* in and of itself important content -- but I would not be surprised if 99.9% of all people would disagree with you -- I definitely do not agree with you. It's the words, not how they are splashed on the page, which is important -- sort of reminds me of Project Gutenberg in some way. > anyway, it will be nice to go back to keeping my 2006 resolution! Yes it would! > moreover, it will be fun to pull back my "reality check" and watch, > as the rothman/noring machine might spin itself out of control... Well, there's never a guarantee of success of any endeavor. We may fail, but then, so what? Better to have tried and failed, than not tried at all. I'm not afraid of failure. After one fails in some other endeavor and then finds it doesn't destroy one's life -- that one can pick themselves up and start over -- makes it easier to try other things and to be less fearful of failure. Throw enough mud on the wall and something will stick. > i don't know about you, but paranoia _this_ grandiose > is tremendously amusing to me!? heck, it makes me wish > i would have been _egging_him_on_ all along, instead of > providing a calm and rational counterbalance to his hype. > i bet it'd be easy to find "evidence" that supports his fears, > because he seems willing to believe some crazy things... > > it's too late for _me_ to do that now, but if _someone_else_ > were to feed his hysteria, it might create some fun reading! > > ah, the world of e-books.? what an interesting "community".????? :+) > > anyway, i am sorry to disturb all you fine people digitizing books. > you can return to your important work now.? thanks for your time. Do you realize that what you just wrote above is the exact reason you've been kicked off of so many mailing lists? It is borderline hate speech. You are weaving together emotionally-laden words, thereby creating spin of the worst type. Reminds me of the worst of "National Enquirer". For one who points his finger all the time at others and yells: "Hype!", "Spin!", you certainly don't realize how much you use spinmeister techniques in your messages. Jon Noring From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Apr 13 16:22:51 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 13 16:22:58 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] don't believe everything you read on the internets Message-ID: <39e.4cc9d0.3170374b@aol.com> like i said, it doesn't matter to me if i'm banned or not, because i want to stop wasting time over there anyway. and since i am certainly not about to change what i say _or_ how i say it, it would only be a matter of time before i was banned eventually, "for the good of the community". besides, jon, with adobe plotting against openreader, you've got much bigger fish to fry than my fat old ass... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060413/b8c15392/attachment.html From jon at noring.name Thu Apr 13 16:41:34 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Thu Apr 13 16:41:56 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] don't believe everything you read on the internets In-Reply-To: <39e.4cc9d0.3170374b@aol.com> References: <39e.4cc9d0.3170374b@aol.com> Message-ID: <1357290645.20060413174134@noring.name> Bowerbird wrote: > like i said, it doesn't matter to me if i'm banned or not, > because i want to stop wasting time over there anyway. Well, definitely an area of agreement! > and since i am certainly not about to change what i say > _or_ how i say it, it would only be a matter of time before > i was banned eventually, "for the good of the community". Most people, including yours truly, aren't bothered by what you say regardless of your assertions that you are persecuted because of what you say. It is *how* you say it which makes a difference. As you noted, it is *your* choice whether or not you'll be banned from a forum. You choose to foster a hostile environment by your messages, and that will lead to a particular end-result. It's nice to have a choice. Jon From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Apr 13 17:16:19 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 13 17:16:23 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] don't believe everything you read on the internets Message-ID: <2a7.2553e04.317043d3@aol.com> > You choose to foster a hostile environment by your messages spin. i carefully tailor my posts to be rorschach blots, open to interpretation; what each person sees in them is informative to me about that person... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060413/03375387/attachment.html From jon at noring.name Thu Apr 13 18:52:40 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Thu Apr 13 18:53:11 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] don't believe everything you read on the internets In-Reply-To: <2a7.2553e04.317043d3@aol.com> References: <2a7.2553e04.317043d3@aol.com> Message-ID: <209782465.20060413195240@noring.name> Bowerbird wrote: > spin. > > i carefully tailor my posts to be rorschach blots, open to interpretation; > what each person sees in them is informative to me about that person... That's a bunch of hooey. Anyway, it only shows you are NOT interested in communicating in an honest, open, cordial, give/take fashion, but simply to be obnoxious and to see how you can "best" others. You seem to enjoy creating a hostile environment where your only purpose in life is to harass others. From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Apr 13 22:13:59 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 13 22:14:07 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] don't believe everything you read on the internets Message-ID: <276.87bb5b3.31708997@aol.com> jon said: > That's a bunch of hooey. Anyway, it only shows you are > NOT interested in communicating in an honest, open, > cordial, give/take fashion, but simply to be obnoxious > and to see how you can "best" others. You seem to > enjoy creating a hostile environment where > your only purpose in life is to harass others. thanks for your interpretation, jon. now let's let these fine people be. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060414/590c1623/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Apr 13 23:38:12 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 13 23:38:17 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] oh, by the way, i hope you're getting a good chuckle Message-ID: <310.2e73081.31709d54@aol.com> oh, by the way, now even some of my comments that had _already_ been posted on the teleread blog have been removed. "for the good of the community", i'm sure... once the censorship bug bites people, they turn rabid... anyway, i hope you're all getting a good chuckle out of this! -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060414/7515ef7f/attachment.html From jon at noring.name Fri Apr 14 08:03:24 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Fri Apr 14 08:03:36 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] oh, by the way, i hope you're getting a good chuckle In-Reply-To: <310.2e73081.31709d54@aol.com> References: <310.2e73081.31709d54@aol.com> Message-ID: <1013970094.20060414090324@noring.name> Bowerbird wrote: > oh, by the way, now even some of my comments > that had _already_ been posted on the teleread blog > have been removed.? "for the good of the community", > i'm sure... > > once the censorship bug bites people, they turn rabid... > > anyway, i hope you're all getting a good chuckle out of this! David Rothman is understandably concerned by the possible removal of comments, as noted in a just-posted TeleRead blog article: http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=4661 Note that I think (but not sure yet), that the spam "doberman" which the TeleRead blog uses (specifically Akismet and Spam Karma 2) has the ability to go through already posted comments and remove them when the blacklist file is updated. Still trying to figure this out. A posting of some test comments by Bowerbird may help to track the problem. And it may be in his interest since if he is somehow blacklisted by SK2/Akismet, he may want to know since it may affect his ability to post elsewhere. I'm sure he might want to answer David's blog anyway, since David is asking for feedback on a proposed TeleRead comment policy, and Bowerbird certainly has a right to submit his thoughts on the topic. Jon From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Apr 14 09:30:38 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 14 09:30:54 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] oh, by the way, i hope you're getting a good chuckle Message-ID: <33e.28e293e.3171282e@aol.com> jon, don't worry about it. really. i'm not concerned. it's pretty hard for me to lose my sense of humor. you can spend your time on more important things. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060414/7263c0be/attachment.html From jon at noring.name Fri Apr 14 09:37:05 2006 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Fri Apr 14 09:37:18 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] oh, by the way, i hope you're getting a good chuckle In-Reply-To: <33e.28e293e.3171282e@aol.com> References: <33e.28e293e.3171282e@aol.com> Message-ID: <875578961.20060414103705@noring.name> Bowerbird: > jon, don't worry about it. > really.? i'm not concerned. > it's pretty hard for me to > lose my sense of humor. > you can spend your time > on more important things. It's your choice whether or not you want to assist us in figuring out what happened to your blog comments. I'm posting this here for the public record in case you continue to claim censorship by the TeleRead blog. We've bent over backwards to try to figure out the problem -- it might happen to others, so we'd like to know what happened. Jon Noring From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Apr 14 09:58:45 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 14 09:58:56 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Catalog Subjects Message-ID: <391.7bf8b8.31712ec5@aol.com> jeroen said: > such things as Dewey or LoC carry historical load we don't need. agreed. dewey, especially, has a lot of socio-political baggage. i just read yesterday that there are something like... well here it is: > http://www.hyperorg.com/backissues/joho-sep03-04.html#dewey > > Of the hundred numbers set aside for topics concerning religion, > 88 ? numbers 201-287 ? are reserved for Christianity. > Jews and Moslems get just one each. But those single-digit religions > are still doing better than Buddhists (294.3) who share a decimal point > with the Sikhs (294.6) and Jains (294.4), looking up enviously at Christian > "Parish government & administration" which gets its own whole number (254). people who are interested in cataloging issues should read more of this site. it's written by one of the cluetrain manifesto people, and it's really quite good. having said all that, a benefit of numbers from existing systems is that they have already been assigned. so the work becomes getting them, not assigning them, and the former is an order of magnitude easier. > We should go for a nice, multi-facetted, multi-entry classification system for > our books, but developing adding that would be a tremendous lot of work... i'm not sure it would have to be all _that_ difficult. certainly a "first pass" could be done rather simply, and might prove to be a huge head-start. and if the system was built as a wiki, incremental improvement from there might be fairly easy to achieve as well... again, the person doing the website above is working on "latent semantic indexing", so he might be a good person to read for ideas... along these lines too, you might wanna look at this: > http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/bparchive?year=2006& post=2006-04-11,1 -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060414/69d271c4/attachment-0001.html From dalereese at fastmail.fm Fri Apr 14 10:26:27 2006 From: dalereese at fastmail.fm (dalebird) Date: Fri Apr 14 10:26:55 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] bowerbird and buckycat Message-ID: <1145035587.29117.259107981@webmail.messagingengine.com> bowerbird certainly has a way with words as he finesses his way around obstacles. he reminds me of bucky the cat in _get fuzzy_. look at today's _get fuzzy_ cartoon... http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/images/getfuzzy2006036639414.gif doesn't bucky remind you of the bird? i wonder what would happen if the bowerbird met the buckycat? lots of feathers and fur flying around. just like a godzilla movie. i admire bowerbird's style. i've decided to embrace some of his personna. henceforth i'll be known as "dalebird". but my poetry sucks, unlike his. this listserve is about pg. i will contribute to real discussion once i learn more about e-books. been downloading quite a few lately from pg. great work, guys (and gals)! sorry for focusing on the bird. i promise to reform! dalebird detergentleman -- Dale Reese dalereese@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web From bruce at zuhause.org Fri Apr 14 11:09:07 2006 From: bruce at zuhause.org (Bruce Albrecht) Date: Fri Apr 14 11:09:12 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Catalog Subjects In-Reply-To: <443EC5BA.9050504@bohol.ph> References: <443EC5BA.9050504@bohol.ph> Message-ID: <17471.58691.987225.740421@celery.zuhause.org> I've been looking at enhancing my list of Google Books with a database of Google Books with their respective MARC entries from either the LOC or owning library, and I see that the catalog subject headings for different editions of books can be quite different. It's obvious that it's inconsistent, but better than nothing. While text string searching is important, book classification is also important, and this is one thing that Google and other PD archives are usually lacking because they generally don't try to preserve (correct, enhance) the MARC entries and support search by subject. From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Apr 14 11:23:52 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 14 11:23:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Catalog Subjects Message-ID: <369.2493797.317142b8@aol.com> bruce said: > support search by subject. subject-based systems have utility, there's no doubt about it, especially ones that drop the physicalistic notion that items can only be placed in one place. and as i said, it's orders-of-magnitude easier to leverage an existing system than inventing one. but if you _are_ going to invent _any_ kind of system, it should be a collaborative-filtering one, not any type of category-based one, no matter how flexible it might be. tomorrow's people won't just want to "find" a book, they will want to be pointed at the exact book they'd most like to read... any system that isn't able to account for their individual preferences will eventually end up being ignored by them, and thus wasted effort... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060414/a41a247c/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Sat Apr 15 13:50:40 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 15 13:50:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] origami cut into shreds Message-ID: <3c8.1beec1.3172b6a0@aol.com> here's an article on the origami in the korea times (in english): > http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/tech/200604/kt2006041317503911780.htm seems that in a press conference touting their new origami machines, three executive officials (one each from samsung, intel, _and_ microsoft) _each_ had embarrassing problems getting the machine to work properly. and then even when it did work ok, its battery ran out mere minutes into one presentation. (maybe the machine was turned on too soon, or maybe battery life in these new machines just ain't very good yet; they're running xp, which is good from the standpoint of widespread usability with existing applications, but it _is_ a very cycle-hungry o.s.) the embarrassment should send their workers back to the drawing board. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060415/da7871a0/attachment.html From cannona at fireantproductions.com Sat Apr 15 12:40:43 2006 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Sat Apr 15 15:21:26 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Problems with image download links? In-Reply-To: <005d01c65c9f$115a8be0$0300a8c0@sarek> References: <005d01c65c9f$115a8be0$0300a8c0@sarek> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060415143820.01cc40e0@fireantproductions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Currently, we have 18 seeders for the DVD and 2 for the CD. That's a little low for the CD, but about average for the DVD. If you visit http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu:6969 you can see how many seeders and leachers we have for each torrent. At 10:02 AM 4/10/2006, you wrote: >One comment today specifically mentioned that no one is seeding our BitTorrent >link. I doubt that this is the case, but the comments occur too often to >ignore. > >Would it be appropriate to augment the CD/DVD download page with a link to >some "newbie friendly" instructions? > >Thank you. > > >_______________________________________________ >gutvol-d mailing list >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d - -- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFEQXBPI7J99hVZuJcRAqa5AJ90B1KcjeiWQqyROjbdy6YD3tIEjgCg5xvG /fD5g9DNQ5IlNXLygRpOJJo= =DKih -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tb at baechler.net Sun Apr 16 00:40:40 2006 From: tb at baechler.net (Tony Baechler) Date: Sun Apr 16 00:46:01 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Another use of PG texts Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060416003511.02bdc690@baechler.net> I don't know anything other than what it says below. I looked at nbp.org and it doesn't say that PG texts are being used. It also doesn't give titles. I don't think there is a trademark violation since they are reformatting the files but it's interesting that they are producing their own DVD. I never personally had a problem with reading PG plain text books and I'm blind. I don't really see the point in the DVD, especially not for $39 US. They also have two CD sets, one for kids and one of British literature. I didn't look at them. National Braille press http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html will carry Super Dvd #1, a dvd containing 3,626 books, 646 plays, 496 magazines and 2,753 stories. All this material is available in the public domain on the Internet, but Richard Seltzer http://www.samizdat.com/ has in many cases reformatted it for clear and simple text access. The dvd costs $39, and a listing of its contents is at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/DVD1.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Apr 17 13:10:03 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 17 13:10:09 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] monday morning quarterback Message-ID: <392.c33f4a.3175501b@aol.com> somebody just asked me about my monday morning quarterback series on book-digitization best practices... the series is on hold because my girlfriend got one of those printer/scanner/copier machines, and i wanted to test it out a bit before writing up new issues, so as to include some examples with what i write from now on, but i haven't gotten around to it yet... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060417/cedcf684/attachment.html From gbnewby at pglaf.org Tue Apr 18 09:33:30 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Tue Apr 18 09:33:32 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Another use of PG texts In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060416003511.02bdc690@baechler.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060416003511.02bdc690@baechler.net> Message-ID: <20060418163330.GA25391@pglaf.org> On Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 12:40:40AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote: > I don't know anything other than what it says below. I looked at > nbp.org and it doesn't say that PG texts are being used. It also > doesn't give titles. I don't think there is a trademark violation > since they are reformatting the files but it's interesting that they > are producing their own DVD. I never personally had a problem with > reading PG plain text books and I'm blind. I don't really see the > point in the DVD, especially not for $39 US. They also have two CD > sets, one for kids and one of British literature. I didn't look at them. > > National Braille press > http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html > will carry Super Dvd #1, a dvd containing 3,626 books, 646 plays, 496 > magazines and 2,753 stories. All this material is available in the > public domain on the Internet, but Richard Seltzer > http://www.samizdat.com/ > has in many cases reformatted it for clear and simple text > access. The dvd costs $39, and a listing of its contents is at > http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/DVD1.html Seltzer's site (www.samizdat.com) does make regular donations to PGLAF as a gesture of good will. They do some reformatting, and strip out the PG headers. I don't know anything about NBP, but as Tony mentioned am not sure what advantage for Braille readers come from reformatting. It might be that they're just ditching our old long header, which is hard to scan past quickly. -- Greg From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Wed Apr 19 11:01:07 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Wed Apr 19 11:01:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: [gweekly] PT1b Weekly Project Gutenberg Newsletter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:59:54 -0700 (PDT), Michael Hart wrote: | |General Catalog of Old Books and Authors | |http://www.kingkong.demon.co.uk/ngcoba/ngcoba.htm | |which now indexes 24,000 books available free online, including all |PG(US) & PG(Aus)'s books, along with some basic date information |about them and their authors where you can find more. | |For information please contact Philip Harper | Plus many books not available on line, a good place to search for books by specific authors who you are interested in. -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain From donovan at abs.net Fri Apr 21 21:31:37 2006 From: donovan at abs.net (D Garcia) Date: Fri Apr 21 21:31:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Errors when uploading submissions Message-ID: <200604220031.37862.donovan@abs.net> Anyone else getting this message when trying to submit an ebook? I did have a report of one other DP volunteer also getting this, it smells of a possible disk space issue. ZIP_TESTS=unzip -t output: File /home/spool/XXXXXX.zip does not exist! (where XXX is the filename of the attempted upload) David From gbnewby at pglaf.org Sun Apr 23 22:28:01 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Sun Apr 23 22:28:02 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Sponsors In-Reply-To: <441EE7AF.7070500@perathoner.de> References: <4419CD37.2000505@perathoner.de> <366100670603161306m339473f2v5b31fa6a7f61a7b0@mail.gmail.com> <20060320023958.GG8882@pglaf.org> <441EE7AF.7070500@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <20060424052801.GB23169@pglaf.org> Somehow I missed this one earlier: On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 06:34:39PM +0100, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > Greg Newby wrote: > > >No, we can't sell ad space at all. Neither PGLAF, nor ibiblio. > > I'm not sure this is true: It's against iBiblio's rules. It's outside of PGLAF's mission. It probably is legal, but that wasn't what I mean't by "can't." -- Greg > "501 (b) Tax on unrelated business income and certain other activities > An organization exempt from taxation under subsection (a) shall be > subject to tax to the extent provided in parts II, III, and VI of this > subchapter, but (notwithstanding parts II, III, and VI of this > subchapter) shall be considered an organization exempt from income taxes > for the purpose of any law which refers to organizations exempt from > income taxes." > > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000501----000-.html > > IANAL but this means to me that we would have to pay taxes on the ad > revenues, but selling ads would not endanger our non-profit status. > > > But the more interesting question is: if we just display standard "thank > you" notices for donations received, without letting the donor choose > the text, would this be considered "selling ads" or just being nice to > our donors? > > > > -- > Marcello Perathoner > webmaster@gutenberg.org From ajhaines at shaw.ca Mon Apr 24 21:19:20 2006 From: ajhaines at shaw.ca (Al Haines (shaw)) Date: Mon Apr 24 21:19:16 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Candidate books for PG? Message-ID: <000301c6681f$6d0421a0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> A thrift store near me has a 24-volume set of "Modern Business" books, written by various authors, published by the Alexander Hamilton Institute, all copyright dates pre-1923. According to a Google search, the Institute appears to still exist. The books don't seem to be in PG. Are such books suitable candidates for PG, or are they too out of date? Al From tb at baechler.net Tue Apr 25 00:20:49 2006 From: tb at baechler.net (Tony Baechler) Date: Tue Apr 25 00:19:16 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Candidate books for PG? In-Reply-To: <000301c6681f$6d0421a0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> References: <000301c6681f$6d0421a0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060425001544.02bd8be0@baechler.net> Hi. I would like to point out something to you. As you know, the point of PG is to digitize (or digitise) public domain books. It doesn't really matter how current they are. In fact, often they are interesting from a historical prospective. A few years ago, a project was begun to post several hundred issues of Scientific American Supplement. Obviously, they are outdated since they are from the 1880's and 1890's. I don't know about others, but I personally find them interesting because electricity was still experimental and the debate was whether it would replace steam or not. Also, I read at the time that the pictures were interesting too but I'm blind so I wouldn't know. My point is that I ask you to not worry about books being out of date. If nothing else, they show how business has changed, but they might still have some useful bits somewhere too. Some of the basic principles of business still apply regardless of the time period. At 09:19 PM 4/24/2006, you wrote: >A thrift store near me has a 24-volume set of "Modern Business" >books, written by various authors, published by the Alexander >Hamilton Institute, all copyright dates pre-1923. > >According to a Google search, the Institute appears to still >exist. The books don't seem to be in PG. > >Are such books suitable candidates for PG, or are they too out of date? From hart at pglaf.org Tue Apr 25 05:59:26 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Tue Apr 25 05:59:27 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Candidate books for PG? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060425001544.02bd8be0@baechler.net> References: <000301c6681f$6d0421a0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> <7.0.1.0.2.20060425001544.02bd8be0@baechler.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Tony Baechler wrote: > Hi. I would like to point out something to you. As you know, the point of > PG is to digitize (or digitise) public domain books. It doesn't really > matter how current they are. In fact, often they are interesting from a > historical prospective. A few years ago, a project was begun to post several > hundred issues of Scientific American Supplement. Obviously, they are > outdated since they are from the 1880's and 1890's. I don't know about > others, but I personally find them interesting because electricity was still > experimental and the debate was whether it would replace steam or not. Also, I strong agree. Watching how modern politicking mirrors historical politicking is amazing, and I often see the same patterns emerging in the processes, whether they are in business or government. This particular example of electricty and steam, and the additional example of electricty and gas, were VERY amazing to study. The truth is that Edison BARELY won his bet to do Broadway's electric lights! > I read at the time that the pictures were interesting too but I'm blind so I > wouldn't know. My point is that I ask you to not worry about books being out > of date. If nothing else, they show how business has changed, but they might > still have some useful bits somewhere too. Some of the basic principles of > business still apply regardless of the time period. Absolutely! Thanks!!! Give the world eBooks in 2006!!! Michael S. Hart Founder Project Gutenberg > > At 09:19 PM 4/24/2006, you wrote: >> A thrift store near me has a 24-volume set of "Modern Business" books, >> written by various authors, published by the Alexander Hamilton Institute, >> all copyright dates pre-1923. >> >> According to a Google search, the Institute appears to still exist. The >> books don't seem to be in PG. >> >> Are such books suitable candidates for PG, or are they too out of date? > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From kth at srv.net Tue Apr 25 08:05:48 2006 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Tue Apr 25 08:17:31 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Candidate books for PG? In-Reply-To: <000301c6681f$6d0421a0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> References: <000301c6681f$6d0421a0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> Message-ID: <444E3ACC.2070802@srv.net> Al Haines (shaw) wrote: > A thrift store near me has a 24-volume set of "Modern Business" books, > written by various authors, published by the Alexander Hamilton > Institute, all copyright dates pre-1923. > Ever notice how often books have "modern" in the titles? > According to a Google search, the Institute appears to still exist. > The books don't seem to be in PG. > > Are such books suitable candidates for PG, or are they too out of date? Definitely! All the more interesting for being so "modern"! Especially if they have pictures/illustrations. I'd still like to see a index made of all the public domain illustrations in PG for use in such things as Web pages, school reports, scrapbooks, etc... Maybe create a additional XML file for each illustration listing such items as search terms (man, woman, bucket, lawnmower), color/B&W, photo/woodcut/painting/line-art... (Summer of code project?) Make sure you keep the copyright/printing dates in the final product. Great for someone who wants to know how business practices have changed over the years. From ajhaines at shaw.ca Tue Apr 25 10:50:17 2006 From: ajhaines at shaw.ca (Al Haines (shaw)) Date: Tue Apr 25 10:50:11 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Candidate books for PG? References: <000301c6681f$6d0421a0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> <7.0.1.0.2.20060425001544.02bd8be0@baechler.net> Message-ID: <000901c66890$b68cd4e0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2600> Michael/Tony/Kevin - thanks for the enthusiasm and the philosophy discourses! You'll be happy to know that I picked up the books this morning. On closer inspection, it turned out that only 19 of the 24 books were present. I haven't figured out yet which five are missing, but since each book has a list of all 24 of the books and their authors, it may be possible to track them down through Abebooks or eBay. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Hart" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:59 AM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Candidate books for PG? > > On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Tony Baechler wrote: > >> Hi. I would like to point out something to you. As you know, the point >> of PG is to digitize (or digitise) public domain books. It doesn't >> really matter how current they are. In fact, often they are interesting >> from a historical prospective. A few years ago, a project was begun to >> post several hundred issues of Scientific American Supplement. >> Obviously, they are outdated since they are from the 1880's and 1890's. >> I don't know about others, but I personally find them interesting because >> electricity was still experimental and the debate was whether it would >> replace steam or not. Also, > > I strong agree. > > Watching how modern politicking mirrors historical politicking is amazing, > and I often see the same patterns emerging in the processes, whether they > are in business or government. > > This particular example of electricty and steam, and the additional > example > of electricty and gas, were VERY amazing to study. > > The truth is that Edison BARELY won his bet to do Broadway's electric > lights! > > > >> I read at the time that the pictures were interesting too but I'm blind >> so I wouldn't know. My point is that I ask you to not worry about books >> being out of date. If nothing else, they show how business has changed, >> but they might still have some useful bits somewhere too. Some of the >> basic principles of business still apply regardless of the time period. > > Absolutely! > > > Thanks!!! > > Give the world eBooks in 2006!!! > > Michael S. Hart > Founder > Project Gutenberg > > >> >> At 09:19 PM 4/24/2006, you wrote: >>> A thrift store near me has a 24-volume set of "Modern Business" books, >>> written by various authors, published by the Alexander Hamilton >>> Institute, all copyright dates pre-1923. >>> >>> According to a Google search, the Institute appears to still exist. The >>> books don't seem to be in PG. >>> >>> Are such books suitable candidates for PG, or are they too out of date? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gutvol-d mailing list >> gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org >> http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >> > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From marcello at perathoner.de Tue Apr 25 12:09:35 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Tue Apr 25 12:09:38 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Washington Post Article? Message-ID: <444E73EF.2080509@perathoner.de> You need an account to access this. Can anybody tell what it is about? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/22/AR2006042200136.html -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From mattsen at arvig.net Tue Apr 25 12:13:05 2006 From: mattsen at arvig.net (Chuck MATTSEN) Date: Tue Apr 25 12:29:50 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Washington Post Article? In-Reply-To: <444E73EF.2080509@perathoner.de> References: <444E73EF.2080509@perathoner.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:09:35 -0500, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > You need an account to access this. Can anybody tell what it is about? > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/22/AR2006042200136.html No account needed ... it opened right up for me. -- Chuck Mattsen (Mahnomen, MN) mattsen@arvig.net From vze3rknp at verizon.net Tue Apr 25 12:40:12 2006 From: vze3rknp at verizon.net (Juliet Sutherland) Date: Tue Apr 25 12:40:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Washington Post Article? In-Reply-To: References: <444E73EF.2080509@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <444E7B1C.3090902@verizon.net> It's an article about the new ebook readers that are coming. The last paragraph says For users looking to download free texts to an e-book reader, Project Gutenberg ( http://www.gutenberg.org/ ) is an Internet-based effort that has placed more than 17,000 public domain books online for download -- everything from the Bible and "Hamlet" to "Don Quixote" and "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer." JulietS Chuck MATTSEN wrote: > On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:09:35 -0500, Marcello Perathoner > wrote: > >> You need an account to access this. Can anybody tell what it is about? >> >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/22/AR2006042200136.html >> > > > No account needed ... it opened right up for me. > > From jmk at his.com Tue Apr 25 12:35:32 2006 From: jmk at his.com (jmk@his.com) Date: Tue Apr 25 12:40:56 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Washington Post Article? In-Reply-To: <444E73EF.2080509@perathoner.de> References: <444E73EF.2080509@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <1145993732.444e7a043220c@webmail.his.com> Quoting Marcello Perathoner : > You need an account to access this. Can anybody tell what it is about? > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/22/AR2006042200136.html "New Digital Books Offer Better Readability" By Chris Barylick, Sunday, 23 April 2006 "Soon, they [subway riders] could be 'flipping through' an electronic book reader, a cross between a handheld flat-panel monitor and a real-life book or newspaper." The article is about new eBook readers, based on E Ink technology that Sony and iRex Technologies will be releasing soon. I'll quote the last two paragraphs: "But there's also a vast offering of free titles that have moved into public domain with the expiration of their copyrights. "For users looking to download free texts to an e-book reader, Project Gutenberg ( http://www.gutenberg.org/ ) is an Internet-based effort that has placed more than 17,000 public domain books online for download -- everything from the Bible and "Hamlet" to "Don Quixote" and "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer." From gbnewby at pglaf.org Tue Apr 25 16:17:20 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Tue Apr 25 16:17:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp Message-ID: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> Does anyone have the time and inclination to research and procure an ink stamp for our CD and DVD giveaways? The giveaway details are here: http://www.gutenberg.org/cdproject We've been hand-lettering the CD/DVD discs (or just sending them blank...using writable media). I thought a simple rubber stamp and ink pad (or self-stamping) would look a little better. Getting ink that would print properly (not smear or run) on a DVD might be difficult. Aaron, who is our CD/DVD giveaway ringmaster, computed some sizes and text ideas: > I think a stamp that had our web address, said "Project Gutenberg > free EBook DVD," and also perhaps said something to the effect of > "copy, share, enjoy," would be ideal. > > We have a few options for the stamp size: > 1.25x1.25" > 1x2" > .75x2.25" > .5x2.5" Such a stamp would be much, much cheaper than pre-printed blank CD or DVD media or other options. If anyone has the time and inclination to work on a design, find out where such stamps are easily acquired, and see about the ink issues, please do!! Thanks!!! -- Greg From kth at srv.net Tue Apr 25 18:01:05 2006 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Tue Apr 25 17:48:24 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> References: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> Message-ID: <444EC651.30200@srv.net> Greg Newby wrote: >Does anyone have the time and inclination to research >and procure an ink stamp for our CD and DVD giveaways? > >The giveaway details are here: > http://www.gutenberg.org/cdproject > >We've been hand-lettering the CD/DVD discs (or just >sending them blank...using writable media). I thought >a simple rubber stamp and ink pad (or self-stamping) >would look a little better. > >Getting ink that would print properly (not smear or >run) on a DVD might be difficult. > >Aaron, who is our CD/DVD giveaway ringmaster, computed >some sizes and text ideas: > > > >>I think a stamp that had our web address, said "Project Gutenberg >>free EBook DVD," and also perhaps said something to the effect of >>"copy, share, enjoy," would be ideal. >> >>We have a few options for the stamp size: >>1.25x1.25" >>1x2" >>.75x2.25" >>.5x2.5" >> >> > >Such a stamp would be much, much cheaper than pre-printed >blank CD or DVD media or other options. > >If anyone has the time and inclination to work on a design, >find out where such stamps are easily acquired, and see about >the ink issues, please do!! Thanks!!! > > No real experience in this, so take this with a grain of salt... Just doing a google search on "custom rubber stamp" returns a large number of hits. Best bet would be to call up one of these guys and ask them about stamping on CD's. One of them has probably answered this question before. In one FAQ (from http://www.xpressstamp.com/faq.asp) Q. Will it work on Photos? *A.* No, the ink will not dry on photos. We do offer special ink for photo stamping. Please call us to order. so I suspect you will need this same special ink for CD's. I just tried regular stamp ink on a CD, and it will *not* dry. Prices from these people look like they are start at $5.00 for a 1/3" x 6", and go up from there to $23 for a 4" x 6". (Plus more for stamp pad and special ink) Most look like they are limited to a small graphic on one side, and "address lines" on the rest, which sounds like what you want anyway. From cannona at fireantproductions.com Tue Apr 25 21:23:10 2006 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Tue Apr 25 21:24:10 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <444EC651.30200@srv.net> References: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> <444EC651.30200@srv.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060425231922.03f9bde0@fireantproductions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for your help with this. I actually don't think drying will be a problem, as we can always buy DVDs and CDs which are inkjet printable. These discs only cost $0.01 more on average than other types of DVDs. At 08:01 PM 4/25/2006, you wrote: >Greg Newby wrote: > >>Does anyone have the time and inclination to research >>and procure an ink stamp for our CD and DVD giveaways? >> >>The giveaway details are here: >> http://www.gutenberg.org/cdproject >> >>We've been hand-lettering the CD/DVD discs (or just >>sending them blank...using writable media). I thought >>a simple rubber stamp and ink pad (or self-stamping) >>would look a little better. >> >>Getting ink that would print properly (not smear or >>run) on a DVD might be difficult. >> >>Aaron, who is our CD/DVD giveaway ringmaster, computed >>some sizes and text ideas: >> >> >> >>>I think a stamp that had our web address, said "Project Gutenberg >>>free EBook DVD," and also perhaps said something to the effect of >>>"copy, share, enjoy," would be ideal. >>> >>>We have a few options for the stamp size: >>>1.25x1.25" >>>1x2" >>>.75x2.25" >>>.5x2.5" >>> >> >>Such a stamp would be much, much cheaper than pre-printed >>blank CD or DVD media or other options. >> >>If anyone has the time and inclination to work on a design, >>find out where such stamps are easily acquired, and see about >>the ink issues, please do!! Thanks!!! >> >No real experience in this, so take this with a grain of salt... > >Just doing a google search on "custom rubber stamp" returns a >large number of hits. Best bet would be to call up one of these >guys and ask them about stamping on CD's. One of them has >probably answered this question before. > >In one FAQ (from http://www.xpressstamp.com/faq.asp) > > Q. Will it work on Photos? > *A.* No, the ink will not dry on photos. We do offer special ink > for photo stamping. Please call us to order. > >so I suspect you will need this same special ink for CD's. >I just tried regular stamp ink on a CD, and it will *not* dry. > >Prices from these people look like they are start >at $5.00 for a 1/3" x 6", and go up from there >to $23 for a 4" x 6". (Plus more for stamp pad and special ink) > >Most look like they are limited to a small graphic on one side, >and "address lines" on the rest, which sounds like what you want >anyway. > >_______________________________________________ >gutvol-d mailing list >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d - -- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFETvXtI7J99hVZuJcRAuVXAJ9F4deEUkJA4AljTjFWrZwcvSw8uACgilda X7EM8ZLu3ALSVI0WB+Q+KWY= =6Fh5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From schultzk at uni-trier.de Wed Apr 26 00:21:17 2006 From: schultzk at uni-trier.de (Schultz Keith J.) Date: Wed Apr 26 01:28:55 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060425231922.03f9bde0@fireantproductions.com> References: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> <444EC651.30200@srv.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20060425231922.03f9bde0@fireantproductions.com> Message-ID: <1B05492B-3725-468F-9EDE-0D3C899E0E2F@uni-trier.de> Hi Everybody, Well, since someelse mentioned it that we will probaly be needing printable DVDs /Cds then why not get a printer that will print on DVD/Cds. Of course there are dedicated printers. In the end run I think a printer would be more feasible. I have a Pixima from Canon that prints DVD/Cds, but I am in Germany. I think the cost of sending me the DVD/Cds and sending them back would cost to much. But, I am willing. regards Keith Am 26.04.2006 um 06:23 schrieb Aaron Cannon: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Thanks for your help with this. I actually don't think drying will > be a problem, as we can always buy DVDs and CDs which are inkjet > printable. These discs only cost $0.01 more on average than other > types of DVDs. > > [snip, snip] From j.hagerson at comcast.net Wed Apr 26 06:32:32 2006 From: j.hagerson at comcast.net (John Hagerson) Date: Wed Apr 26 06:35:56 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Sponsors Message-ID: <00ab01c66935$e27ec5e0$0300a8c0@sarek> In the United States, National Public Radio has run into the slippery slope of providing "underwriting credits" in return for sponsorships. NPR is tax exempt, listener sponsored (NPR stations beg periodically), and has a government-mandated educational mission. "Underwriting credits" started small and were focused on a particular program. "Funding for religion coverage on 'All Things Considered' was provided by the Peter Q. and Frieda P. Jones foundation." (I made that one up.) However, then the individual radio stations started to get into the act. Now, the format for many programs is to halt at 20 minutes past the hour and 20 minutes to the hour for the equivalent of a bunch of commercials. On my NPR station, they are all read by the "serious" NPR announcer, but that too may change. Marcello, I don't believe that your reference to unrelated business income tax (UBIT) would apply to us even if we did sell advertising space. Most cases of UBIT that I am familiar with are when a not-for-profit engages in a for profit business on the side. For example, if a church runs a bookstore, then they would pay UBIT on the profits from the bookstore because selling books is not part of their mission as a church. I am aware of a case where a church owns a building and meets on the second floor while the ground floor houses a grocery store. The rent that they receive from the grocery store is subject to UBIT. However, I too am not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV). John Hagerson -----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Newby Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:28 AM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Sponsors Somehow I missed this one earlier: On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 06:34:39PM +0100, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > Greg Newby wrote: > > >No, we can't sell ad space at all. Neither PGLAF, nor ibiblio. > > I'm not sure this is true: It's against iBiblio's rules. It's outside of PGLAF's mission. It probably is legal, but that wasn't what I mean't by "can't." -- Greg > "501 (b) Tax on unrelated business income and certain other activities > An organization exempt from taxation under subsection (a) shall be > subject to tax to the extent provided in parts II, III, and VI of this > subchapter, but (notwithstanding parts II, III, and VI of this > subchapter) shall be considered an organization exempt from income taxes > for the purpose of any law which refers to organizations exempt from > income taxes." > > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000501----000-. html > > IANAL but this means to me that we would have to pay taxes on the ad > revenues, but selling ads would not endanger our non-profit status. > > > But the more interesting question is: if we just display standard "thank > you" notices for donations received, without letting the donor choose > the text, would this be considered "selling ads" or just being nice to > our donors? > > > > -- > Marcello Perathoner > webmaster@gutenberg.org _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From cannona at fireantproductions.com Wed Apr 26 09:06:45 2006 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Wed Apr 26 09:38:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <1B05492B-3725-468F-9EDE-0D3C899E0E2F@uni-trier.de> References: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> <444EC651.30200@srv.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20060425231922.03f9bde0@fireantproductions.com> <1B05492B-3725-468F-9EDE-0D3C899E0E2F@uni-trier.de> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060426103916.01a33008@fireantproductions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 How much did you pay for the printer? How much do you pay for replacement ink? How many discs can you print with one cartridge? What I've read has led me to believe that the cost per disc would be prohibitive. Also, less expensive printers weren't designed to handle the volume which we require. Nevertheless, thanks for your offer. Sincerely Aaron Cannon At 02:21 AM 4/26/2006, you wrote: >Hi Everybody, > > Well, since someelse mentioned it that we will > probaly be needing printable DVDs /Cds then why > not get a printer that will print on DVD/Cds. Of > course there are dedicated printers. > > In the end run I think a printer would be more > feasible. > > I have a Pixima from Canon that prints DVD/Cds, > but I am in Germany. I think the cost of sending > me the DVD/Cds and sending them back would cost to > much. But, I am willing. > > regards > Keith > > >Am 26.04.2006 um 06:23 schrieb Aaron Cannon: > >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>Hash: SHA1 >> >>Thanks for your help with this. I actually don't think drying will >>be a problem, as we can always buy DVDs and CDs which are inkjet >>printable. These discs only cost $0.01 more on average than other >>types of DVDs. >> >>[snip, snip] >_______________________________________________ >gutvol-d mailing list >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d - -- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFET6IGI7J99hVZuJcRAjIYAKDB+ZqIVllRX3ZdY1Jhk0SQDiYg2wCfSi1+ +zenNsHfUGFZ6djcCG58Uy4= =ArPO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kth at srv.net Wed Apr 26 10:37:00 2006 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Wed Apr 26 10:24:43 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060425231922.03f9bde0@fireantproductions.com> References: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> <444EC651.30200@srv.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20060425231922.03f9bde0@fireantproductions.com> Message-ID: <444FAFBC.6020403@srv.net> Aaron Cannon wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Thanks for your help with this. I actually don't think drying will > be a problem, as we can always buy DVDs and CDs which are inkjet > printable. These discs only cost $0.01 more on average than other > types of DVDs. > I'd still test it before spending much money on the project. Just borrow one of those "received" or "void" stamps from someones office, and stamp it onto one of those CD's. Ink-jet ink and stamp-ink are very different. Stamp-ink does not dry on any plastic surface that I have tried. Even leaving it on overnight does not help. Stamp-ink is designed to pull water from the air to keep it moist. When it is applied to regular paper, the paper can apparently wick the water away faster than the ink absorbes it, or something to that effect. Plastic surfaces (and glossy surfaces) just don't work right, no wicking, so the ink always remains wet. This is a "feature" of the stamp-ink, so that you don't have to worry about your stamp pad drying out between uses. From cannona at fireantproductions.com Wed Apr 26 13:22:19 2006 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Wed Apr 26 13:24:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <444FAFBC.6020403@srv.net> References: <20060425231720.GA18886@pglaf.org> <444EC651.30200@srv.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20060425231922.03f9bde0@fireantproductions.com> <444FAFBC.6020403@srv.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060426145514.01a204a8@fireantproductions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'll definitely do as you suggest and test it when I receive a new batch of printables. I spoke with a CSR from Stamp Xpress today (http://ww.stampxpress.com) and she gave me a lot of helpful information. They do offer the photo-type ink, so if necessary, we can order that instead. Anyway, based on what she told me, it looks like a self-inking type stamp will be the way to go. Pre-inked stamps seem to give a little better impression, but they can only be used 8-10 times before they need to rest for a couple minutes. this probably wouldn't work for us, as we usually do things in large batches. So, now we just need someone who can design a stamp for us. The one that seems to come closest to the proper dimensions is at http://www.stampxpress.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=IDEAL100 . It's dimensions are 3/4" x 2-3/8" The formula I devised for determining whether or not a rectangular shape would fit on the printable surface of a DVD is: l^2 + (w^2/4) <= 2 where l and w are the length and width in inches of the stamp. This formula provides for some extra space around the edges of the stamp, so one doesn't need to worry about getting it exactly right on target. Alternatively, the web site provides for simply entering text and picking a style, so that may be another option. Any thoughts? Sincerely Aaron Cannon At 12:37 PM 4/26/2006, you wrote: >I'd still test it before spending much money on the project. >Just borrow one of those "received" or "void" stamps from >someones office, and stamp it onto one of those CD's. > >Ink-jet ink and stamp-ink are very different. > >Stamp-ink does not dry on any plastic surface that >I have tried. Even leaving it on overnight does not help. > >Stamp-ink is designed to pull water from the air to keep >it moist. When it is applied to regular paper, the paper can >apparently wick the water away faster than the ink absorbes it, >or something to that effect. >Plastic surfaces (and glossy surfaces) just don't work right, >no wicking, so the ink always remains wet. > >This is a "feature" of the stamp-ink, so that you don't have >to worry about your stamp pad drying out between uses. > >_______________________________________________ >gutvol-d mailing list >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d - -- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFET9bvI7J99hVZuJcRAmbcAKDWIqfTdvAeUt2umUcA863k/1c8YQCgiTQD jyRi+IR+UsbMU4f4pgioaKw= =6OP9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gbuchana at adobe.com Wed Apr 26 13:39:49 2006 From: gbuchana at adobe.com (Gardner Buchanan) Date: Wed Apr 26 15:53:16 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060426145514.01a204a8@fireantproductions.com> Message-ID: <9E0858EED4F4814B806510175EC7C4F48BB957@namail2.corp.adobe.com> I would recommend looking into a label-based approach. I think the plain white laser printer labels go for $0.05 per unit in quantity - amazingly expensive given what they are, but probably economical. There are Word templates and many utilities for designing to these label layouts. The solution is scalable, in the sense than any volunteer can buy a box of labels, box of CDs, download the CD image and the label design and then burn, print and label nice looking final CDs/DVDs. See you, Gardner Buchanan Adobe Systems Canada Office: +1 613 940 3842 Mobile: +1 613 884 7940 -----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon Sent: April 26, 2006 16:22 To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'll definitely do as you suggest and test it when I receive a new batch of printables. I spoke with a CSR from Stamp Xpress today (http://ww.stampxpress.com) and she gave me a lot of helpful information. They do offer the photo-type ink, so if necessary, we can order that instead. Anyway, based on what she told me, it looks like a self-inking type stamp will be the way to go. Pre-inked stamps seem to give a little better impression, but they can only be used 8-10 times before they need to rest for a couple minutes. this probably wouldn't work for us, as we usually do things in large batches. So, now we just need someone who can design a stamp for us. The one that seems to come closest to the proper dimensions is at http://www.stampxpress.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=IDEAL100 . It's dimensions are 3/4" x 2-3/8" The formula I devised for determining whether or not a rectangular shape would fit on the printable surface of a DVD is: l^2 + (w^2/4) <= 2 where l and w are the length and width in inches of the stamp. This formula provides for some extra space around the edges of the stamp, so one doesn't need to worry about getting it exactly right on target. Alternatively, the web site provides for simply entering text and picking a style, so that may be another option. Any thoughts? Sincerely Aaron Cannon At 12:37 PM 4/26/2006, you wrote: >I'd still test it before spending much money on the project. >Just borrow one of those "received" or "void" stamps from >someones office, and stamp it onto one of those CD's. > >Ink-jet ink and stamp-ink are very different. > >Stamp-ink does not dry on any plastic surface that >I have tried. Even leaving it on overnight does not help. > >Stamp-ink is designed to pull water from the air to keep >it moist. When it is applied to regular paper, the paper can >apparently wick the water away faster than the ink absorbes it, >or something to that effect. >Plastic surfaces (and glossy surfaces) just don't work right, >no wicking, so the ink always remains wet. > >This is a "feature" of the stamp-ink, so that you don't have >to worry about your stamp pad drying out between uses. > >_______________________________________________ >gutvol-d mailing list >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d - -- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFET9bvI7J99hVZuJcRAmbcAKDWIqfTdvAeUt2umUcA863k/1c8YQCgiTQD jyRi+IR+UsbMU4f4pgioaKw= =6OP9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From grythumn at gmail.com Wed Apr 26 17:35:54 2006 From: grythumn at gmail.com (Robert Cicconetti) Date: Wed Apr 26 17:35:56 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <9E0858EED4F4814B806510175EC7C4F48BB957@namail2.corp.adobe.com> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060426145514.01a204a8@fireantproductions.com> <9E0858EED4F4814B806510175EC7C4F48BB957@namail2.corp.adobe.com> Message-ID: <15cfa2a50604261735icd6a8bdob270fe9eb3cbdf8e@mail.gmail.com> Labels have their own problems.. for one thing, they are very easy to misapply and throw off the balance of a CD. (Even worse, I've seen people use address-type rectangular labels on CDs.. it made the whole PC shake.) Second, they cut the average life of a CD by a large margin either through damaging the reflective layer directly (lifting up the thin foil) or the glue damaging the top varnish. Some of the modern kits may do better, but I've had bad experiences with labeled discs in the past. http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15800263&pgno=2&queryText= Has anyone checked into getting a few thousand blank disks screen printed by a professional printing outfit? R C On 4/26/06, Gardner Buchanan wrote: > > I would recommend looking into a label-based approach. > I think the plain white laser printer labels go for $0.05 per unit in > quantity - amazingly expensive given what they are, but probably > economical. > There are Word templates and many utilities for designing to these label > layouts. > > The solution is scalable, in the sense than any volunteer can buy a box > of labels, box of CDs, download the CD image and the label design and > then burn, print and label nice looking final CDs/DVDs. > > See you, > > Gardner Buchanan > Adobe Systems Canada > Office: +1 613 940 3842 > Mobile: +1 613 884 7940 > > -----Original Message----- > From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org > [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon > Sent: April 26, 2006 16:22 > To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'll definitely do as you suggest and test it when I receive a new > batch of printables. > > I spoke with a CSR from Stamp Xpress today > (http://ww.stampxpress.com) and she gave me a lot of helpful > information. They do offer the photo-type ink, so if necessary, we > can order that instead. > > Anyway, based on what she told me, it looks like a self-inking type > stamp will be the way to go. Pre-inked stamps seem to give a little > better impression, but they can only be used 8-10 times before they > need to rest for a couple minutes. this probably wouldn't work for > us, as we usually do things in large batches. > > So, now we just need someone who can design a stamp for us. The one > that seems to come closest to the proper dimensions is at > http://www.stampxpress.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=IDEAL100 > . It's dimensions are 3/4" x 2-3/8" > > The formula I devised for determining whether or not a rectangular > shape would fit on the printable surface of a DVD is: > l^2 + (w^2/4) <= 2 > where l and w are the length and width in inches of the stamp. This > formula provides for some extra space around the edges of the stamp, > so one doesn't need to worry about getting it exactly right on target. > > Alternatively, the web site provides for simply entering text and > picking a style, so that may be another option. Any thoughts? > > Sincerely > Aaron Cannon > > > At 12:37 PM 4/26/2006, you wrote: > > >I'd still test it before spending much money on the project. > >Just borrow one of those "received" or "void" stamps from > >someones office, and stamp it onto one of those CD's. > > > >Ink-jet ink and stamp-ink are very different. > > > >Stamp-ink does not dry on any plastic surface that > >I have tried. Even leaving it on overnight does not help. > > > >Stamp-ink is designed to pull water from the air to keep > >it moist. When it is applied to regular paper, the paper can > >apparently wick the water away faster than the ink absorbes it, > >or something to that effect. > >Plastic surfaces (and glossy surfaces) just don't work right, > >no wicking, so the ink always remains wet. > > > >This is a "feature" of the stamp-ink, so that you don't have > >to worry about your stamp pad drying out between uses. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >gutvol-d mailing list > >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > - -- > E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com > Skype: cannona > MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail > address.) > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 > Comment: Key available from all major key servers. > > iD8DBQFET9bvI7J99hVZuJcRAmbcAKDWIqfTdvAeUt2umUcA863k/1c8YQCgiTQD > jyRi+IR+UsbMU4f4pgioaKw= > =6OP9 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060426/f16c494f/attachment.html From j.hagerson at comcast.net Wed Apr 26 17:42:38 2006 From: j.hagerson at comcast.net (John Hagerson) Date: Wed Apr 26 17:42:44 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp Message-ID: <00bf01c66993$7f57d750$0300a8c0@sarek> I may be mistaken, but I thought I remember reading that an adhesive label shortens the useful life of the media. I found some information through Google Answers. StazOn is an ink pad with solvent-based ink. It claims to dry on plastic, metal, and glass. These ink pads are available in a number of colors. They also sell a cleaning solution to remove the ink from the stamp. You can see this at http://www.blockheadstamps.com/ink_stazon.html I have no experience with this product or with this web site. It might be prudent to buy one pad and try it before making a more significant investment. John Hagerson -----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Gardner Buchanan Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 3:40 PM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject: RE: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp I would recommend looking into a label-based approach. I think the plain white laser printer labels go for $0.05 per unit in quantity - amazingly expensive given what they are, but probably economical. There are Word templates and many utilities for designing to these label layouts. The solution is scalable, in the sense than any volunteer can buy a box of labels, box of CDs, download the CD image and the label design and then burn, print and label nice looking final CDs/DVDs. See you, Gardner Buchanan Adobe Systems Canada Office: +1 613 940 3842 Mobile: +1 613 884 7940 From donovan at abs.net Wed Apr 26 17:51:47 2006 From: donovan at abs.net (D Garcia) Date: Wed Apr 26 17:51:59 2006 Subject: [dp-pg] Re: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <15cfa2a50604261735icd6a8bdob270fe9eb3cbdf8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060426145514.01a204a8@fireantproductions.com> <9E0858EED4F4814B806510175EC7C4F48BB957@namail2.corp.adobe.com> <15cfa2a50604261735icd6a8bdob270fe9eb3cbdf8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200604262051.47225.donovan@abs.net> On Wednesday 26 April 2006 08:35 pm, Robert Cicconetti wrote: > Has anyone checked into getting a few thousand blank disks screen printed > by a professional printing outfit? This is probably an optimal solution, especially if one of the companies can be convinced to donate them. From cannona at fireantproductions.com Thu Apr 27 10:49:50 2006 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Thu Apr 27 11:26:03 2006 Subject: [dp-pg] Re: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <200604262051.47225.donovan@abs.net> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060426145514.01a204a8@fireantproductions.com> <9E0858EED4F4814B806510175EC7C4F48BB957@namail2.corp.adobe.com> <15cfa2a50604261735icd6a8bdob270fe9eb3cbdf8e@mail.gmail.com> <200604262051.47225.donovan@abs.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060427122601.01afaed0@fireantproductions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The reason we wanted to go with a stamp was because up until now the discs have been hand labeled. Unfortunately, due to the high number of requests, hand labeling is no longer as feasible as it once was. The reason we are considering the use of a stamp is also because it's cheap. We've considered ordering preprinted discs, but it's not cheap, or at least not as cheap. Sure, it makes a great first impression, but I don't believe that the added cost is worth it. I don't recalled what the price was when I last looked, but it was at least $0.20 more per disc than we are currently paying. PG will shortly be acquiring an 11 disc duplicator which will be capable of outputting as many as 66 discs an hour. So, obviously, labeling will become an even bigger issue than it already is. In addition, John Hagerson is already using a robotic duplicator with which he is able to burn and verify 50 discs per day. Many of our other volunteers who mail smaller quantities will likely still use hand labeling, but for myself and possibly John, a stamp would save a lot of work. Of course any donations of good quality discs are always welcome, whether they are preprinted or not, but so far it hasn't happened. Although, to be fair, we have never looked for such a donation either. Sincerely Aaron Cannon At 07:51 PM 4/26/2006, you wrote: >On Wednesday 26 April 2006 08:35 pm, Robert Cicconetti wrote: > > Has anyone checked into getting a few thousand blank disks screen printed > > by a professional printing outfit? > >This is probably an optimal solution, especially if one of the companies can >be convinced to donate them. >_______________________________________________ >gutvol-d mailing list >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d - -- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFEUQy6I7J99hVZuJcRAkVYAJ40bBXeBN8qS+fNdk5gj2QYsSNfCgCgjlG7 VSUNcSVSKq8zhJIk404k0xQ= =qEvh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gbnewby at pglaf.org Thu Apr 27 12:47:12 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Thu Apr 27 12:47:14 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp In-Reply-To: <9E0858EED4F4814B806510175EC7C4F48BB957@namail2.corp.adobe.com> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060426145514.01a204a8@fireantproductions.com> <9E0858EED4F4814B806510175EC7C4F48BB957@namail2.corp.adobe.com> Message-ID: <20060427194712.GC9284@pglaf.org> On Wed, Apr 26, 2006 at 01:39:49PM -0700, Gardner Buchanan wrote: > I would recommend looking into a label-based approach. > I think the plain white laser printer labels go for $0.05 per unit in > quantity - amazingly expensive given what they are, but probably > economical. > There are Word templates and many utilities for designing to these label > layouts. > > The solution is scalable, in the sense than any volunteer can buy a box > of labels, box of CDs, download the CD image and the label design and > then burn, print and label nice looking final CDs/DVDs. > Full-size labels are too expensive, but would work well if they weren't. For smaller labels (something not the same size as the top of the CD/DVD), these are to be avoided. Because they throw off the center of balance on the disc, there is potential for scraping the disc against the insides of the player or otherwise having some physical trauma. Also, those labels (which I've tried!) seem to be more likely to peel up just a bit at one corner, then suddenly you have a wad of gooey label stuck inside your CD/DVD drive mechanism. This is highly perilous for slot drives in notebook computers, and not so much fun for regular tray loaders, either :( -- Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org > [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon > Sent: April 26, 2006 16:22 > To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] cdproject seeks CD/DVD stamp > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'll definitely do as you suggest and test it when I receive a new > batch of printables. > > I spoke with a CSR from Stamp Xpress today > (http://ww.stampxpress.com) and she gave me a lot of helpful > information. They do offer the photo-type ink, so if necessary, we > can order that instead. > > Anyway, based on what she told me, it looks like a self-inking type > stamp will be the way to go. Pre-inked stamps seem to give a little > better impression, but they can only be used 8-10 times before they > need to rest for a couple minutes. this probably wouldn't work for > us, as we usually do things in large batches. > > So, now we just need someone who can design a stamp for us. The one > that seems to come closest to the proper dimensions is at > http://www.stampxpress.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=IDEAL100 > . It's dimensions are 3/4" x 2-3/8" > > The formula I devised for determining whether or not a rectangular > shape would fit on the printable surface of a DVD is: > l^2 + (w^2/4) <= 2 > where l and w are the length and width in inches of the stamp. This > formula provides for some extra space around the edges of the stamp, > so one doesn't need to worry about getting it exactly right on target. > > Alternatively, the web site provides for simply entering text and > picking a style, so that may be another option. Any thoughts? > > Sincerely > Aaron Cannon > > > At 12:37 PM 4/26/2006, you wrote: > > >I'd still test it before spending much money on the project. > >Just borrow one of those "received" or "void" stamps from > >someones office, and stamp it onto one of those CD's. > > > >Ink-jet ink and stamp-ink are very different. > > > >Stamp-ink does not dry on any plastic surface that > >I have tried. Even leaving it on overnight does not help. > > > >Stamp-ink is designed to pull water from the air to keep > >it moist. When it is applied to regular paper, the paper can > >apparently wick the water away faster than the ink absorbes it, > >or something to that effect. > >Plastic surfaces (and glossy surfaces) just don't work right, > >no wicking, so the ink always remains wet. > > > >This is a "feature" of the stamp-ink, so that you don't have > >to worry about your stamp pad drying out between uses. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >gutvol-d mailing list > >gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > - -- > E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com > Skype: cannona > MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail > address.) > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 > Comment: Key available from all major key servers. > > iD8DBQFET9bvI7J99hVZuJcRAmbcAKDWIqfTdvAeUt2umUcA863k/1c8YQCgiTQD > jyRi+IR+UsbMU4f4pgioaKw= > =6OP9 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d