From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Aug 1 12:19:53 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 1 12:19:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] foreign dishes Message-ID: <570.46cfa31.32010359@aol.com> e-text #10011 is a delightful little recipe-book, dating from 1908, with "365 foreign dishes" in it, one "for every day in the year". in keeping with this, entries are ordered from january 1 to december 31. the e-text was very well-done (a little cooking pun). close analysis in the process of z.m.l. transformation revealed just one tiny glitch -- an extra empty-line -- which was located rather easily, as can be seen here: > http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011glitch.jpg you can compare the original p.g. file with the z.m.l. version, side-by-side, by opening up these url's in separate windows: > http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011.txt > http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011.zml to sum up, the changes involved reworking all the headers a little bit, and introducing a "contents" menu for the dishes under each month... then i generated a .pdf of it: > http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011.pdf as you will notice, this .pdf presents each of the dishes on its own page. this gives a very clean look, and will eventually provide great navigation. (my work-flow does not yet provide auto-hotlinking in the .pdf version.) indeed, in cases like this, the .pdf makes a _better_ e-book than .html, and you can judge it for yourself by viewing the p.g. html-book, here: > http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10011/10011-h/10011-h.htm of course, you'd want to generate another .pdf if you were printing it, so as to use fewer pages. but this format is great for on-screen use; the ability to page from one recipe to the next, with each presented in a consistent position, is far less trying than scrolling through them... this is a common scenario, actually, with another example of it being the reading of a listserve digest. when each message comes up at the top of the screen, automatically, and you can skip it with a keypress to go to the next, it's much easier to navigate than when you must scroll and scan the text to try and locate the beginning of the next message. i will share frequent observations as i go about the task of converting the p.g. library over to .zml, so i thought i'd start with this simple one. comments of any type are welcomed, from _just_about_ anyone... ;+) -bowerbird p.s. if you try the norwegian fish pudding (march 24), let us know! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060801/710b8fd9/attachment.html From kostuch at earthlink.net Tue Aug 1 12:58:57 2006 From: kostuch at earthlink.net (kostuch@earthlink.net) Date: Tue Aug 1 13:10:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] foreign dishes Message-ID: <17656281.1154462337757.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Why did you send this to me? Peace, Don -----Original Message----- >From: Bowerbird@aol.com >Sent: Aug 1, 2006 3:19 PM >To: gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org, Bowerbird@aol.com >Subject: [gutvol-d] foreign dishes > >e-text #10011 is a delightful little recipe-book, >dating from 1908, with "365 foreign dishes" in it, >one "for every day in the year". in keeping with this, >entries are ordered from january 1 to december 31. > >the e-text was very well-done (a little cooking pun). > >close analysis in the process of z.m.l. transformation >revealed just one tiny glitch -- an extra empty-line -- >which was located rather easily, as can be seen here: >> http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011glitch.jpg > >you can compare the original p.g. file with the z.m.l. version, >side-by-side, by opening up these url's in separate windows: >> http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011.txt >> http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011.zml > >to sum up, the changes involved reworking all the headers a little bit, >and introducing a "contents" menu for the dishes under each month... > >then i generated a .pdf of it: >> http://snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/bowerbird/etext10011/10011.pdf > >as you will notice, this .pdf presents each of the dishes on its own page. >this gives a very clean look, and will eventually provide great navigation. >(my work-flow does not yet provide auto-hotlinking in the .pdf version.) > >indeed, in cases like this, the .pdf makes a _better_ e-book than .html, >and you can judge it for yourself by viewing the p.g. html-book, here: >> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10011/10011-h/10011-h.htm > >of course, you'd want to generate another .pdf if you were printing it, >so as to use fewer pages. but this format is great for on-screen use; >the ability to page from one recipe to the next, with each presented in >a consistent position, is far less trying than scrolling through them... > >this is a common scenario, actually, with another example of it being >the reading of a listserve digest. when each message comes up at the >top of the screen, automatically, and you can skip it with a keypress to >go to the next, it's much easier to navigate than when you must scroll >and scan the text to try and locate the beginning of the next message. > >i will share frequent observations as i go about the task of converting >the p.g. library over to .zml, so i thought i'd start with this simple one. >comments of any type are welcomed, from _just_about_ anyone... ;+) > >-bowerbird > >p.s. if you try the norwegian fish pudding (march 24), let us know! From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Aug 1 15:57:44 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 1 15:57:50 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] foreign dishes Message-ID: <411.5588ca00.32013668@aol.com> don said: > Why did you send this to me? i sent it to the gutvol-d listserve, which you must be subscribed to. are you aware you, too, sent your question to the hundreds of people on that listserve? -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060801/fea203ee/attachment.html From Catenacci at Ieee.Org Thu Aug 3 17:53:26 2006 From: Catenacci at Ieee.Org (Onorio Catenacci) Date: Thu Aug 3 17:53:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces Message-ID: Hi all, The book I'm working on scanning in is a posthumous collection of the works of a scientist. The editors have, at certain points, put the actual text of the notes in a different typeface. Any thoughts on how one can indicate this in a plain ASCII format? -- Onorio Catenacci We're all just doves, Trying to find our way home. From sly at victoria.tc.ca Thu Aug 3 18:39:11 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Thu Aug 3 18:39:14 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Within plain ascii, you could treat it as an intended block quote. (This may or may not be practical, depending on the nature and length of the text). Alternately, you could make an html version as well, and include a short note in the ascii version that the HTML retains more of the typographical detail of the original. Andrew On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, Onorio Catenacci wrote: > Hi all, > > The book I'm working on scanning in is a posthumous collection of the > works of a scientist. The editors have, at certain points, put the > actual text of the notes in a different typeface. Any thoughts on how > one can indicate this in a plain ASCII format? > > From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Aug 3 20:01:51 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 3 20:01:58 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces Message-ID: onorio said: > The editors have, at certain points, put the > actual text of the notes in a different typeface.? > Any thoughts on how one can > indicate this in a plain ASCII format? if you think of the different typeface as a "bracketing" mechanism, solutions will present themselves, such as surrounding notes in _actual_ brackets (straight or curly). you can also prepend the notes with a label, like the word "note: " (notice the semi-colon). some ascii-based viewer-apps -- like mine -- will then treat that paragraph in a special way (e.g., by colorizing it), since that's how _plays_ get formatted correctly. if the notes are short enough, you can even mark them as italic, or bold. or indentation, as andrew suggested, works. similarly, you can wrap those paragraphs to a much shorter line-length. basically, anything that makes the notes _distinctive_ will work... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060803/28d0991d/attachment.html From Catenacci at Ieee.Org Fri Aug 4 02:19:27 2006 From: Catenacci at Ieee.Org (Onorio Catenacci) Date: Fri Aug 4 02:22:40 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/3/06, Andrew Sly wrote: > Within plain ascii, you could treat it as an > intended block quote. (This may or may not be practical, > depending on the nature and length of the text). > > Alternately, you could make an html version as well, > and include a short note in the ascii version that > the HTML retains more of the typographical detail of > the original. > Thanks for the suggestions Andrew. -- Onorio Catenacci We're all just doves, Trying to find our way home. From Catenacci at Ieee.Org Fri Aug 4 02:22:43 2006 From: Catenacci at Ieee.Org (Onorio Catenacci) Date: Fri Aug 4 02:28:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/3/06, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > > onorio said: > > The editors have, at certain points, put the > > actual text of the notes in a different typeface. > > Any thoughts on how one can > > indicate this in a plain ASCII format? > > if you think of the different typeface as > a "bracketing" mechanism, solutions will > present themselves, such as surrounding > notes in _actual_ brackets (straight or curly). > > you can also prepend the notes with a label, > like the word "note: " (notice the semi-colon). > some ascii-based viewer-apps -- like mine -- > will then treat that paragraph in a special way > (e.g., by colorizing it), since that's how _plays_ > get formatted correctly. > > if the notes are short enough, you can even > mark them as italic, or bold. > > or indentation, as andrew suggested, works. > similarly, you can wrap those paragraphs to a > much shorter line-length. basically, anything > that makes the notes _distinctive_ will work... > Excellent point about bracketing. I was thiking along those lines. A related issue: I was sort wondering if there were a general style that people follow for dealing with issues like this; a common practice. This is a technical book and there will be other issues in transcribing it (e. g. footnotes) so I wondered if there were some sort of common set of practices people used in transcribing technical material. -- Onorio Catenacci We're all just doves, Trying to find our way home. From sly at victoria.tc.ca Fri Aug 4 09:29:10 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Fri Aug 4 09:29:13 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Onorio Catenacci wrote: > A related issue: I was sort wondering if there were a general style > that people follow for dealing with issues like this; a common > practice. This is a technical book and there will be other issues in > transcribing it (e. g. footnotes) so I wondered if there were some > sort of common set of practices people used in transcribing technical > material. > Yes, Project Gutenberg volunteers have dealt with a wide variety of material outside of just plain prose, including scholarly, footnoted texts; cookbooks; periodicals; dictionaries... Umm... that's all that comes to mind at the moment. Try taking a look at the faq, particularly the Volunteer section. http://www.gutenberg.org/faq/ It's also very helpful to browse through the catalog, and take a look at some of the texts already in the collection. Andrew From Catenacci at Ieee.Org Fri Aug 4 09:56:45 2006 From: Catenacci at Ieee.Org (Onorio Catenacci) Date: Fri Aug 4 09:56:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/4/06, Andrew Sly wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Onorio Catenacci wrote: > > > A related issue: I was sort wondering if there were a general style > > that people follow for dealing with issues like this; a common > > practice. This is a technical book and there will be other issues in > > transcribing it (e. g. footnotes) so I wondered if there were some > > sort of common set of practices people used in transcribing technical > > material. > > > > Yes, Project Gutenberg volunteers have dealt with a wide > variety of material outside of just plain prose, including > scholarly, footnoted texts; cookbooks; periodicals; > dictionaries... Umm... that's all that comes to mind > at the moment. > > Try taking a look at the faq, particularly the Volunteer section. > http://www.gutenberg.org/faq/ > > It's also very helpful to browse through the catalog, and > take a look at some of the texts already in the collection. > Ah, good idea. I wish I'd thought of that one myself first. :-) -- Onorio Catenacci We're all just doves, Trying to find our way home. From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Aug 4 11:13:11 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 4 11:13:21 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces Message-ID: <4a1.70896180.3204e837@aol.com> andrew said: > Yes, Project Gutenberg volunteers have dealt with a wide > variety of material outside of just plain prose, including it would be nice if that experience was captured and communicated in a "best practices" type of document covering various situations... the massive inconsistencies in the e-texts came about largely because no one had guidance like that, and just had to go off on their own... i could be wrong about this -- i'd love to be wrong about this -- but i don't remember much in the f.a.q. that covered questions like this... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060804/69a311f7/attachment.html From gbnewby at pglaf.org Fri Aug 4 11:54:57 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Fri Aug 4 11:54:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Wired on HOPE: Hart/Newby presentation Message-ID: <20060804185457.GA27802@pglaf.org> Michael and I presented at the HOPE conference a couple of weeks ago. (Michael was the keynote speaker, I was the lackey.) There's a nice article about the conference, including an actual picture of Michael and I together (one of very few that exists!). http://wired.com/news/technology/0,71450-0.html -- Greg From dbsmith at atbbs.dyndns.org Fri Aug 4 17:08:38 2006 From: dbsmith at atbbs.dyndns.org (David Smith) Date: Fri Aug 4 17:38:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Different Typefaces In-Reply-To: <4a1.70896180.3204e837@aol.com> References: <4a1.70896180.3204e837@aol.com> Message-ID: <44D39B36.25532.590D93@dbsmith.atbbs.dyndns.org> It was 4 Aug 2006, when Bowerbird@aol.com commented: > andrew said: > > Yes, Project Gutenberg volunteers have dealt with a wide > > variety of material outside of just plain prose, including > > it would be nice if that experience was captured and communicated > in a "best practices" type of document covering various situations... You're thinking a Project Gutenberg Book of Style? Don't recall there is such a thing. -- Pegasus Mail is free software, committed to the notion that communication is as basic a right as free speech, since free speech without a medium by which it may be heard is as loud as silence. -- David Harris, author, Pegasus Mail From ajhaines at shaw.ca Sat Aug 5 17:02:40 2006 From: ajhaines at shaw.ca (Al Haines (shaw)) Date: Sat Aug 5 17:02:44 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] The Terrible Twins, by Edgar Jepson - missing pages Message-ID: <000801c6b8eb$a2645eb0$6401a8c0@ahainesp2400> My copy of the above book was published and copyrighted by The Bobbs-Merrill Company, 1913. I discovered while scanning it that it was missing two leaves - the ones for pages 3 and 4, and pages 53 and 54. Can someone who may have this book provide me with images of the missing pages? Thanks, Al From sly at victoria.tc.ca Sat Aug 5 21:58:20 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Sat Aug 5 21:58:23 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Wired on HOPE: Hart/Newby presentation In-Reply-To: <20060804185457.GA27802@pglaf.org> References: <20060804185457.GA27802@pglaf.org> Message-ID: Yes, it's a nice article, and it mentions Project Gutenberg. But, *sigh*, it links to: http://promo.net/pg/index.html I can understand when webpages that have not been updated for many years link to that URL, but I would hope that newer ones would use gutenberg.org. Andrew On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Greg Newby wrote: > Michael and I presented at the HOPE conference a couple > of weeks ago. (Michael was the keynote speaker, I was > the lackey.) > > There's a nice article about the conference, including > an actual picture of Michael and I together (one of > very few that exists!). > > http://wired.com/news/technology/0,71450-0.html > > -- Greg > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From j.hagerson at comcast.net Sun Aug 6 06:46:58 2006 From: j.hagerson at comcast.net (John Hagerson) Date: Sun Aug 6 06:57:08 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Wired on HOPE: Hart/Newby presentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011e01c6b95e$cc7fa6a0$1f12fea9@sarek> Do we have the ability to update the promo.net page to provide a non-transparent redirection to the gutenberg.org homepage? For example, "The Project Gutenberg homepage has moved to gutenberg.org. If your browser does not automatically redirect you in five seconds, click here." Even if we had to leave leaf pages alone (because of deep linking), making this change should prevent the situation from becoming any further entrenched. -----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sly Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 11:58 PM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Wired on HOPE: Hart/Newby presentation Yes, it's a nice article, and it mentions Project Gutenberg. But, *sigh*, it links to: http://promo.net/pg/index.html I can understand when webpages that have not been updated for many years link to that URL, but I would hope that newer ones would use gutenberg.org. Andrew On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Greg Newby wrote: > Michael and I presented at the HOPE conference a couple > of weeks ago. (Michael was the keynote speaker, I was > the lackey.) > > There's a nice article about the conference, including > an actual picture of Michael and I together (one of > very few that exists!). > > http://wired.com/news/technology/0,71450-0.html > > -- Greg > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From prosfilaes at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 12:22:30 2006 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Sun Aug 6 12:22:38 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Categorizing in Wiki In-Reply-To: <44BAD2FC.7020303@perathoner.de> References: <57b.fcf4c8.31e81845@aol.com> <1681483192.20060713162854@noring.name> <1e8e65080607141924j38a25b8boe6a43c58f8fe6b06@mail.gmail.com> <20060716123835.GO20863@joeysmith.com> <44BAD2FC.7020303@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0608061222r2720c615icd318e91f856fba@mail.gmail.com> On 7/16/06, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > The easiest way to start is to: > > 1. Create an account > 2. Create a page containing a list of books > 3. Add the page to the "Bookshelf" category > > like here: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Detective_Fiction Is this ready to be announced? It doesn't seem that anyone has noticed the wiki yet. One thing missing is Recent Changes (http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges) isn't linked from the sidebar. It's a very useful tool for seeing what new cool stuff is going on and what vandalism is being created. From gbnewby at pglaf.org Sun Aug 6 13:36:44 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Sun Aug 6 13:36:45 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Wired on HOPE: Hart/Newby presentation In-Reply-To: <011e01c6b95e$cc7fa6a0$1f12fea9@sarek> References: <011e01c6b95e$cc7fa6a0$1f12fea9@sarek> Message-ID: <20060806203644.GF9021@pglaf.org> On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 08:46:58AM -0500, John Hagerson wrote: > Do we have the ability to update the promo.net page to provide a > non-transparent redirection to the gutenberg.org homepage? For example, "The > Project Gutenberg homepage has moved to gutenberg.org. If your browser does > not automatically redirect you in five seconds, click here." Even if we had > to leave leaf pages alone (because of deep linking), making this change > should prevent the situation from becoming any further entrenched. We've requested this for years. email webmaster@promo.net to make your views heard. He has not listened so far... the person in charge there is Pietro diMicelli, who was our Webmaster from about 1995 - 2002. -- Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org > [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sly > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 11:58 PM > To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Wired on HOPE: Hart/Newby presentation > > > Yes, it's a nice article, and it mentions Project > Gutenberg. But, *sigh*, it links to: > http://promo.net/pg/index.html > > I can understand when webpages that have not been updated > for many years link to that URL, but I would hope that > newer ones would use gutenberg.org. > > Andrew > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Greg Newby wrote: > > > Michael and I presented at the HOPE conference a couple > > of weeks ago. (Michael was the keynote speaker, I was > > the lackey.) > > > > There's a nice article about the conference, including > > an actual picture of Michael and I together (one of > > very few that exists!). > > > > http://wired.com/news/technology/0,71450-0.html > > > > -- Greg > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From cannona at fireantproductions.com Sun Aug 6 14:12:47 2006 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Sun Aug 6 14:13:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Categorizing in Wiki References: <57b.fcf4c8.31e81845@aol.com><1681483192.20060713162854@noring.name> <1e8e65080607141924j38a25b8boe6a43c58f8fe6b06@mail.gmail.com><20060716123835.GO20863@joeysmith.com><44BAD2FC.7020303@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608061222r2720c615icd318e91f856fba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c6b99d$1c2504f0$0300a8c0@blackbox> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hopefully it will get more contributions when we go live. Sincerely Aaron Cannon - -- Skype: cannona MSN/Windows Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (don't send email to the hotmail address.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Starner" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Categorizing in Wiki > On 7/16/06, Marcello Perathoner wrote: >> The easiest way to start is to: >> >> 1. Create an account >> 2. Create a page containing a list of books >> 3. Add the page to the "Bookshelf" category >> >> like here: >> >> http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Detective_Fiction > > Is this ready to be announced? It doesn't seem that anyone has noticed > the wiki yet. > > One thing missing is Recent Changes > (http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges) isn't linked > from the sidebar. It's a very useful tool for seeing what new cool > stuff is going on and what vandalism is being created. > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFE1ltiI7J99hVZuJcRAi+SAJwK55aJ2PawhYBGddTNf8+OskKObACdGAzW l4A3OSJfKohtTxIHD7kqk10= =XYFD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Bowerbird at aol.com Sun Aug 6 16:43:55 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 16:44:04 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Wired on HOPE: Hart/Newby presentation Message-ID: well, first of all, congratulations, greg, on co-organizing what sounds like a neat conference, on interesting topics, with an admirable attendance of 2,000! > email webmaster@promo.net to make your views heard. > He has not listened so far...? the person in charge > there is Pietro diMicelli, who was our Webmaster > from about 1995 - 2002. if he hasn't "listened so far", what makes you think more e-mails will convince him to such this action? i'm speculating the parting had some acrimony in it, and his unwillingness to make you happy is a result. why not just make sure that reporters like this one give the link that you want them to in the first place? -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060806/0e46cd33/attachment.html From tb at baechler.net Mon Aug 7 00:24:35 2006 From: tb at baechler.net (Tony Baechler) Date: Mon Aug 7 00:31:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Registry of US Government Publication Digitzation Projects Message-ID: <20060807072435.GA2884@investigative.net> Hi all, This might be of interest to some of you. As you probably know, all US government publications are already in the public domain so no clearance is necessary. The site isn't clear as to how the various items will be made available, I.E. page images, text, etc but one could assume that all content could be added to PG. Also, people from this list might want to make suggestions for what should be digitized first. The below is from the rss feed of http://www.researchbuzz.org/ . Did you know there was a Registry of US Government Publication Digtization Projects? Me neither. But there is, and you can both contribute your institutions projects and browse through the existing ones at http://www.gpoaccess.gov/legacy/registry/. There's not a lot here, unfortunately, though I like what I do see. You can do a [...] URL: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/researchbuzz/main/~3/9307953/ From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Aug 7 13:50:31 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 7 13:50:38 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] google releases some cool data Message-ID: <363.b007f57.32090197@aol.com> google is releasing some very cool data into the wild, based on a corpus of a trillion words from web-pages. one trillion. if you know anything about previous projects in this vein, you'll know that a corpus this big is totally unprecedented. as google points out -- > http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/08/all-our-n-gram-are-belong-to-you.html -- this data is quite useful across a wide spectrum of arenas, including "statistical machine translation, speech recognition, spelling correction, entity detection, information extraction..." you'll note that we've discussed some of these topics before... -bowerbird p.s. this entry to google's official blog was posted by two people from the "google machine translation team", for whatever that might mean... i've suspected their research labs are _way_ out front on these things, and the near future will see a _lot_ of advances coming from them... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060807/9edb7b71/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Aug 7 14:02:17 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 7 14:02:23 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] more on google machine translation Message-ID: more on google machine translation here, from april 28th: > http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/04/statistical-machine-translation-live.html -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060807/3ee07b89/attachment.html From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Tue Aug 8 00:10:11 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Tue Aug 8 00:10:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] more on google machine translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:02:17 EDT, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: | |more on google machine translation here, from april 28th: |> |http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/04/statistical-machine-translation-live.html The languages which any PG translation system will have to deal with will not be present day languages, but Languages as they existed before 1923, when they were considerably different. At minimum this would require retraining the with <<<100 articles (or documents).>>> manually translated for each language pair. -- Dave Fawthrop From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Tue Aug 8 00:16:12 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Tue Aug 8 00:16:26 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] google releases some cool data In-Reply-To: <363.b007f57.32090197@aol.com> References: <363.b007f57.32090197@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 16:50:31 EDT, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: |google is releasing some very cool data into the wild, |based on a corpus of a trillion words from web-pages. | |one trillion. | |if you know anything about previous projects in this vein, |you'll know that a corpus this big is totally unprecedented. | |as google points out -- |> |http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/08/all-our-n-gram-are-belong-to-you.html ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <<< All Our N-gram are Belong to You >>> ROTFLMAO If this is the quality their data, I doubt it will be much use. :-))) -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain From gbnewby at pglaf.org Tue Aug 8 08:17:30 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Tue Aug 8 08:17:31 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" Message-ID: <20060808151730.GA10796@pglaf.org> Here's an impressive new eBook: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19002 It's a transcription of a handwritten "Alice's Adventures Under Ground," precursor to our #11. -- Greg From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Tue Aug 8 09:16:24 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Tue Aug 8 09:16:38 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" In-Reply-To: <20060808151730.GA10796@pglaf.org> References: <20060808151730.GA10796@pglaf.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:17:30 -0700, Greg Newby wrote: |Here's an impressive new eBook: | http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19002 | |It's a transcription of a handwritten "Alice's Adventures |Under Ground," precursor to our #11. | -- Greg Congratulations to DP, truly impressive. -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Aug 8 12:05:13 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 8 12:05:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" Message-ID: <373.80865d9.320a3a69@aol.com> i do love me the handwritten. while speaking of alice, though, #11 needs an extreme makeover. i do have a z.m.l. version, with all of its auxiliary versions too, if you want it... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060808/60cc6dd0/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Aug 8 12:11:18 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 8 12:11:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] google releases some cool data Message-ID: <2d6.45237a00.320a3bd6@aol.com> dave said: > <<< All Our . are Belong to You >>>?? ROTFLMAO > If this is the quality their data, I doubt it will be much use. :-))) um, do you know from whence this expression comes? > The languages which any PG translation system will have to deal with 1. crawl. 2. walk. 3. run. 4. fly. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060808/47ee259c/attachment.html From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Tue Aug 8 13:28:30 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:28:44 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] google releases some cool data In-Reply-To: <2d6.45237a00.320a3bd6@aol.com> References: <2d6.45237a00.320a3bd6@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:11:18 EDT, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: |dave said: |> <<< All Our . are Belong to You >>>?? ROTFLMAO |> If this is the quality their data, I doubt it will be much use. :-))) | |um, do you know from whence this expression comes? The book of ungrammatical, incomprehensible American Expressions? |> The languages which any PG translation system will have to deal with | |1. crawl. |2. walk. |3. run. |4. fly. I doubt it get past a crawl however much money Google throw at it. -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain From prosfilaes at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 13:40:39 2006 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:40:45 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] google releases some cool data In-Reply-To: References: <2d6.45237a00.320a3bd6@aol.com> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0608081340n5d661691nf20d2bd6244ed9e5@mail.gmail.com> On 8/8/06, Dave Fawthrop wrote: > The book of ungrammatical, incomprehensible American Expressions? It's not incomprehensible; I'd expect all intelligent native speakers of English to comprehend it. It's based off a popular phrase, "All your base are belong to us", from a European edition of a video game. Blame the Europeans, or the Japanese, but it's surely not the fault of Americans. But what the hell, a cheap shot's always worth it, isn't it? From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Aug 8 14:38:50 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 8 14:38:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] google releases some cool data Message-ID: <324.9bbf1b7.320a5e6a@aol.com> dave said: > The book of ungrammatical, incomprehensible American Expressions? actually, the phrase started out as engrish in a video-game; after which it took on a life of its own, as an internet meme. (precisely like you did, many people got a big laugh out of it.) i googled "all your base are belong to us" -- the exact phrase -- and got 956,000 hits on it, to give you an idea of its spread... of course, most versions are now variations, like this one was. ("are belong to us" returns 2,390,000 google hits.) > I doubt it get past a crawl however much money Google throw at it. i think everybody's opinion on this topic is firmly on the record now... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060808/ddd2e6d4/attachment.html From JBuck814366460 at aol.com Fri Aug 11 14:49:55 2006 From: JBuck814366460 at aol.com (Jared Buck) Date: Fri Aug 11 14:49:37 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> Hey, would there be any way we could be able to create a system for searching by subject matter for books? I have a mind to create a CD of books about and by native american indians for a girl i really like and the search mechanism is just not robust enough, searching full text takes too much time either. Being able to enter a single term under subject should be able to bring up a whole list of books related to that subject matter. Like, searching for science fiction should bring up a list of books that ARE science fiction, not just books with the words "science fiction" in the title or in the text. Jared From sly at victoria.tc.ca Fri Aug 11 15:21:08 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Fri Aug 11 15:21:11 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> References: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> Message-ID: Yes. I do perceive a need for something like this. In my searching for author information for the online catalog, I've run across plenty of sites which have their own list of selected titles from PG arranged, or tagged, or what-have-you, according to the interest of whoever put together the list. So, is it better to say, "let everybody make their own way of organizing what is of interest to them", or do we want to make some kind of categorizing availible on gutenberg.org? Not long ago, on this mailing list I mentioned different ways this might be approached, and what my preferred approach would be. Unfortunately, it turns out that, for technical issues, using mediawiki in the way I was imagining is not possible. Marcello has set up an example of the type of list that could be used here: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Detective_Fiction_%28Bookshelf%29 What do you think? Would you like to make more lists like this? A hand-edited list like this where you can specify the order and sub-grouping, and add editorial comments can certainly be useful in some cases. Andrew On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Jared Buck wrote: > Hey, would there be any way we could be able to create a system for > searching by subject matter for books? I have a mind to create a CD of > books about and by native american indians for a girl i really like and > the search mechanism is just not robust enough, searching full text > takes too much time either. Being able to enter a single term under > subject should be able to bring up a whole list of books related to that > subject matter. Like, searching for science fiction should bring up a > list of books that ARE science fiction, not just books with the words > "science fiction" in the title or in the text. > > Jared > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From JBuck814366460 at aol.com Fri Aug 11 16:57:32 2006 From: JBuck814366460 at aol.com (Jared Buck) Date: Fri Aug 11 16:57:13 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: References: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> Message-ID: <44DD196C.4080000@aol.com> This is exactly what i was thinking off. Yes, this type of list is something like what I would like to have. Of course, everybody will have their own idea for what books would go where, so the discussion page (which is on most wikis that I know of) could be used among members to discuss where they think certain books would belong and why. Jared Andrew Sly wrote on 11/08/2006, 3:21 PM: > > Yes. I do perceive a need for something like this. > > In my searching for author information for the online > catalog, I've run across plenty of sites which have > their own list of selected titles from PG arranged, > or tagged, or what-have-you, according to the interest > of whoever put together the list. > > So, is it better to say, "let everybody make their > own way of organizing what is of interest to them", > or do we want to make some kind of categorizing > availible on gutenberg.org? > > Not long ago, on this mailing list I mentioned different > ways this might be approached, and what my preferred > approach would be. Unfortunately, it turns out that, > for technical issues, using mediawiki in the way I was > imagining is not possible. > > Marcello has set up an example of the type of list > that could be used here: > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Detective_Fiction_%28Bookshelf%29 > > What do you think? Would you like to make more lists like this? > > A hand-edited list like this where you can specify the > order and sub-grouping, and add editorial comments can certainly > be useful in some cases. > > Andrew > > On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Jared Buck wrote: > > > Hey, would there be any way we could be able to create a system for > > searching by subject matter for books? I have a mind to create a CD of > > books about and by native american indians for a girl i really like and > > the search mechanism is just not robust enough, searching full text > > takes too much time either. Being able to enter a single term under > > subject should be able to bring up a whole list of books related to > that > > subject matter. Like, searching for science fiction should bring up a > > list of books that ARE science fiction, not just books with the words > > "science fiction" in the title or in the text. > > > > Jared > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > -- . .:. .:::. .:::::. ***.:::::::.*** *******.:::::::::.******* Dmitri Yalovsky ********.:::::::::::.******** ********.:::::::::::::.******** USS Authority *******.::::::'***`::::.******* ******.::::'*********`::.****** Asst. Chief of Engineering ****.:::'*************`:.**** *.::'*****************`.* .:' *************** . . From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Fri Aug 11 23:40:53 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Fri Aug 11 23:41:05 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> References: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:49:55 -0700, "Jared Buck" wrote: |Hey, would there be any way we could be able to create a system for |searching by subject matter for books? I have a mind to create a CD of |books about and by native american indians for a girl i really like and |the search mechanism is just not robust enough, searching full text |takes too much time either. Being able to enter a single term under |subject should be able to bring up a whole list of books related to that |subject matter. Like, searching for science fiction should bring up a |list of books that ARE science fiction, not just books with the words |"science fiction" in the title or in the text. Are you volunteering to read and categorise all 18,000 books, then write the program? -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain From sly at victoria.tc.ca Sat Aug 12 00:01:57 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Sat Aug 12 00:02:21 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: References: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> Message-ID: Dave: That's exactly the point. We couldn't expect anyone to do that. Other than having a miraculous grant from somewhere to hire a professional librarian for a couple of years. :) However, variations on what are sometimes called "Social tagging" schemes might be workable in our case. This may lack the precision of traditional library cataloging, but it is much better than nothing, has flexibility to reflect the aspects that volunteers are interested in, and can be easily contributed to by many people. Simply making lists, as I mentioned earlier, does not fulfill my vision of the full potential, but perhaps is a place to start for now. Andrew On Sat, 12 Aug 2006, Dave Fawthrop wrote: > On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:49:55 -0700, "Jared Buck" > wrote: > > |Hey, would there be any way we could be able to create a system for > |searching by subject matter for books? I have a mind to create a CD of > |books about and by native american indians for a girl i really like and > |the search mechanism is just not robust enough, searching full text > |takes too much time either. Being able to enter a single term under > |subject should be able to bring up a whole list of books related to that > |subject matter. Like, searching for science fiction should bring up a > |list of books that ARE science fiction, not just books with the words > |"science fiction" in the title or in the text. > > Are you volunteering to read and categorise all 18,000 books, then write > the program? > From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Sat Aug 12 00:33:08 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Sat Aug 12 00:33:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: References: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> Message-ID: <0h0rd2hsp67kk6l961jidq656h79slefl2@4ax.com> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 00:01:57 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Sly wrote: | |Dave: | |That's exactly the point. We couldn't expect anyone |to do that. Other than having a miraculous grant from |somewhere to hire a professional librarian for a couple |of years. :) | |However, variations on what are sometimes called |"Social tagging" schemes might be workable in |our case. | |This may lack the precision of traditional library cataloging, |but it is much better than nothing, has flexibility to reflect |the aspects that volunteers are interested in, and can be |easily contributed to by many people. | |Simply making lists, as I mentioned earlier, does not fulfill |my vision of the full potential, but perhaps is a place to |start for now. | |Andrew | |On Sat, 12 Aug 2006, Dave Fawthrop wrote: | |> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:49:55 -0700, "Jared Buck" |> wrote: |> |> |Hey, would there be any way we could be able to create a system for |> |searching by subject matter for books? I have a mind to create a CD of |> |books about and by native american indians for a girl i really like and |> |the search mechanism is just not robust enough, searching full text |> |takes too much time either. Being able to enter a single term under |> |subject should be able to bring up a whole list of books related to that |> |subject matter. Like, searching for science fiction should bring up a |> |list of books that ARE science fiction, not just books with the words |> |"science fiction" in the title or in the text. |> |> Are you volunteering to read and categorise all 18,000 books, then write |> the program? PG has IIRC 1 1/2 paid employees, and our founder works for free, when he could be employed as a full Professor at some university. Would you be willing to put PG's finances on a ?proper? footing, otherwise everything is up to volunteers, who are our greatest asset :-) -- Dave Fawthrop From sly at victoria.tc.ca Sat Aug 12 09:25:21 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Sat Aug 12 09:25:23 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <0h0rd2hsp67kk6l961jidq656h79slefl2@4ax.com> References: <44DCFB83.3040207@aol.com> <0h0rd2hsp67kk6l961jidq656h79slefl2@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Aug 2006, Dave Fawthrop wrote: > On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 00:01:57 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Sly > wrote: > > | > |Dave: > | > |That's exactly the point. We couldn't expect anyone > |to do that. Other than having a miraculous grant from > |somewhere to hire a professional librarian for a couple > |of years. :) > | > |However, variations on what are sometimes called > |"Social tagging" schemes might be workable in > |our case. > | > |This may lack the precision of traditional library cataloging, > |but it is much better than nothing, has flexibility to reflect > |the aspects that volunteers are interested in, and can be > |easily contributed to by many people. > | > |Simply making lists, as I mentioned earlier, does not fulfill > |my vision of the full potential, but perhaps is a place to > |start for now. > | > |Andrew > | > |On Sat, 12 Aug 2006, Dave Fawthrop wrote: > | > |> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:49:55 -0700, "Jared Buck" > |> wrote: > |> > |> |Hey, would there be any way we could be able to create a system for > |> |searching by subject matter for books? I have a mind to create a CD of > |> |books about and by native american indians for a girl i really like and > |> |the search mechanism is just not robust enough, searching full text > |> |takes too much time either. Being able to enter a single term under > |> |subject should be able to bring up a whole list of books related to that > |> |subject matter. Like, searching for science fiction should bring up a > |> |list of books that ARE science fiction, not just books with the words > |> |"science fiction" in the title or in the text. > |> > |> Are you volunteering to read and categorise all 18,000 books, then write > |> the program? > > PG has IIRC 1 1/2 paid employees, and our founder works for free, when he > could be employed as a full Professor at some university. > > Would you be willing to put PG's finances on a ?proper? footing, otherwise > everything is up to volunteers, who are our greatest asset :-) > Funny, that's exactly what I thought I _was_ saying. Perhaps my attempt at sarcasm did not come across clearly. My interest is very much in encouraging volunteers to participate. But rather than restricting it to the small handfull of people who occassionally edit the catalog, opening it up to a broader group. Andrew From Bowerbird at aol.com Sat Aug 12 10:48:18 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Sat Aug 12 10:48:31 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <553.69391fa.320f6e62@aol.com> as i was saying, volunteers are wonderful! and a catalog would be mucho fantastico! and we can probably set up some kind of a system for volunteers to create a catalog! and who doesn't love a merry-go-round? whee! whee! -bowerbird p.s. watch me walkabout all funny when i get off the thing because i'm so _dizzy_... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060812/0b1f6cb7/attachment.html From ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca Sat Aug 12 15:27:49 2006 From: ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca (Wallace J.McLean) Date: Sat Aug 12 16:03:35 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> Would it be possible for some clever script-writer out there to be able to set up something that would harvest LOC/AMICUS subject lines, based on inputting the Dewey or LOC call number or cat number? From marcello at perathoner.de Sun Aug 13 06:17:44 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Sun Aug 13 06:18:05 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> Message-ID: <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> Wallace J.McLean wrote: > Would it be possible for some clever script-writer out there to be able > to set up something that would harvest LOC/AMICUS subject lines, based > on inputting the Dewey or LOC call number or cat number? To get subject tags from the LoC is relatively easy. But, first of all, you have to enter the LoC call number of the book. There are only 19,000 of them. Volunteers? -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From prosfilaes at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 09:50:29 2006 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Sun Aug 13 09:50:31 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> On 8/13/06, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > Wallace J.McLean wrote: > > > Would it be possible for some clever script-writer out there to be able > > to set up something that would harvest LOC/AMICUS subject lines, based > > on inputting the Dewey or LOC call number or cat number? > > To get subject tags from the LoC is relatively easy. But, first of all, > you have to enter the LoC call number of the book. > > There are only 19,000 of them. Volunteers? First, Distributed Proofreaders usually records the LCCN upon creation of the project. If we import from them, that's probably a good 5,000 there. Secondly, whenever I hand import a book, I copy the category and stuff from the LOC by hand; it would be much easier if I could do it just by entering the LCCN. Every little bit helps, and I might be motivated to do a lot more if I could load it just by entering the LCCN. Thirdly, if we offered the ability to load information from the LoC at copy.pglaf.org like is done at DP, most new clearances would have the LCCN because it would be the most convenient way of clearing the book. From cannona at fireantproductions.com Sun Aug 13 10:34:56 2006 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Sun Aug 13 10:35:13 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002301c6befe$d03a4c50$0300a8c0@blackbox> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Does anyone have the link handy for looking up such things at the LOC? Sincerely Aaron Cannon - -- Skype: cannona MSN/Windows Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (don't send email to the hotmail address.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Starner" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? > On 8/13/06, Marcello Perathoner wrote: >> Wallace J.McLean wrote: >> >> > Would it be possible for some clever script-writer out there to be able >> > to set up something that would harvest LOC/AMICUS subject lines, based >> > on inputting the Dewey or LOC call number or cat number? >> >> To get subject tags from the LoC is relatively easy. But, first of all, >> you have to enter the LoC call number of the book. >> >> There are only 19,000 of them. Volunteers? > > First, Distributed Proofreaders usually records the LCCN upon creation > of the project. If we import from them, that's probably a good 5,000 > there. Secondly, whenever I hand import a book, I copy the category > and stuff from the LOC by hand; it would be much easier if I could do > it just by entering the LCCN. Every little bit helps, and I might be > motivated to do a lot more if I could load it just by entering the > LCCN. > > Thirdly, if we offered the ability to load information from the LoC at > copy.pglaf.org like is done at DP, most new clearances would have the > LCCN because it would be the most convenient way of clearing the book. > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959 Comment: Key available from all major key servers. iD8DBQFE32LQI7J99hVZuJcRAvdTAJ4r10xCZG+CxsTE/vV/KA+hk5/24ACeK03G wFBBjC7AG6MuZeNaHYeW5iM= =sMe8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Sun Aug 13 12:11:43 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Sun Aug 13 12:11:58 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <16uud2h8kuj3s68bdpnp436dv3a3odpelu@4ax.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:17:44 +0200, Marcello Perathoner wrote: |Wallace J.McLean wrote: | |> Would it be possible for some clever script-writer out there to be able |> to set up something that would harvest LOC/AMICUS subject lines, based |> on inputting the Dewey or LOC call number or cat number? | |To get subject tags from the LoC is relatively easy. But, first of all, |you have to enter the LoC call number of the book. | |There are only 19,000 of them. Volunteers? Lots of books, especially the ones I do, are not in LoC or even British Library -- Dave Fawthrop "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain From j.hagerson at comcast.net Sun Aug 13 14:11:30 2006 From: j.hagerson at comcast.net (John Hagerson) Date: Sun Aug 13 14:16:43 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <16uud2h8kuj3s68bdpnp436dv3a3odpelu@4ax.com> Message-ID: <000001c6bf1d$0f8bba10$1f12fea9@sarek> We have the classic PG conundrum: In response to a suggestion to make a change, someone helpfully (sarcasm, people!) indicates the enormity of the task and asks if the person making the suggestion is willing to single-handedly implement it or to raise tens of thousands of dollars to hire one or more professionals to "do it right." Another responds with a willingness to participate in an aspect of the solution, but only after someone else gets the ball rolling. Another person reminds us that Distributed Proofreaders has already collected the data to provide a partial solution; we only need to create a mechanism to bring their data over to the "parent" site. Finally, someone pipes up that some material provided to DP is so rare that the only records of the material even being created are buried with some defrocked monk who drowned off the coast of Antigua under mysterious circumstances. And someone else will contribute yet another dead horse for us to beat. Come on, people. There is no magic wand to provide a complete instant solution to this issue. There is also nothing wrong for multiple partial solutions. If someone is really excited about petunias, let that person create a petunia page. If the LOC has an official subject category for petunias (I don't know, Science - Botany - Perennial Plants - North America - Petunias), then let's link things that way too. We have Distributed Proofreaders. Do we need Distributed Catalogers? I would be willing to read a book and tell you what categories would be significant to me. I am not a professional cataloger, but I have used a library before and I have some concept of a subject index. The original post was along the lines of "it would be nice if we could do this." Yes, lots of things would be nice and not every nice thing deserves to be done. However, if we fancy ourselves as a library, is not a subject index part of the catalog? Let the flames begin. From jmdyck at ibiblio.org Sun Aug 13 15:04:26 2006 From: jmdyck at ibiblio.org (Michael Dyck) Date: Sun Aug 13 15:05:37 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DFA1EA.1020409@ibiblio.org> David Starner wrote: > > First, Distributed Proofreaders usually records the LCCN upon creation > of the project. If we import from them, that's probably a good 5,000 > there. It looks like about 1/3 of DP projects have a valid LCCN (that I could find, anyway). For the 8890 titles that PG has posted from DP, the fraction is slightly less. Here is the PG# -> LCCN mapping for 2238 of them: http://www.pgdp.net/noncvs/LCCN/map.txt -Michael From marcello at perathoner.de Sun Aug 13 17:30:47 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Sun Aug 13 17:30:50 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <44DFA1EA.1020409@ibiblio.org> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> <44DFA1EA.1020409@ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <44DFC437.6040204@perathoner.de> Michael Dyck wrote: > It looks like about 1/3 of DP projects have a valid LCCN (that I could > find, anyway). For the 8890 titles that PG has posted from DP, the > fraction is slightly less. Here is the PG# -> LCCN mapping for 2238 of > them: > > http://www.pgdp.net/noncvs/LCCN/map.txt Not bad. I'll crash now but I'll import them tomorrow. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From rnmscott at netspace.net.au Sun Aug 13 18:49:43 2006 From: rnmscott at netspace.net.au (rnmscott@netspace.net.au) Date: Sun Aug 13 18:49:51 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1155520183.44dfd6b7e16ea@webmail.netspace.net.au> Ok, is one way to do it make the whole thing a DP project then? List all books, have all the volunteers fill in subjects for the ones they know into some standard file that becomes machine readable, then has a checking process like other stuff, and books are removed from the list once done? Quoting David Starner : > First, Distributed Proofreaders usually records the LCCN upon creation > of the project. If we import from them, that's probably a good 5,000 > there. Secondly, whenever I hand import a book, I copy the category > and stuff from the LOC by hand; it would be much easier if I could do > it just by entering the LCCN. Every little bit helps, and I might be > motivated to do a lot more if I could load it just by entering the > LCCN. > > Thirdly, if we offered the ability to load information from the LoC at > copy.pglaf.org like is done at DP, most new clearances would have the > LCCN because it would be the most convenient way of clearing the book. > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au From jmdyck at ibiblio.org Sun Aug 13 20:00:13 2006 From: jmdyck at ibiblio.org (Michael Dyck) Date: Sun Aug 13 20:00:17 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <44DFC437.6040204@perathoner.de> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> <44DFA1EA.1020409@ibiblio.org> <44DFC437.6040204@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <44DFE73D.1060707@ibiblio.org> [off-list] Marcello Perathoner wrote: > Michael Dyck wrote: > > >>It looks like about 1/3 of DP projects have a valid LCCN (that I could >>find, anyway). For the 8890 titles that PG has posted from DP, the >>fraction is slightly less. Here is the PG# -> LCCN mapping for 2238 of >>them: >> >>http://www.pgdp.net/noncvs/LCCN/map.txt > > > Not bad. I'll crash now but I'll import them tomorrow. Actually, it turns out there are further archives that I didn't find, so I should have an improved version soonish. -Michael From gbnewby at pglaf.org Tue Aug 15 10:57:25 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Tue Aug 15 10:57:27 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" In-Reply-To: <373.80865d9.320a3a69@aol.com> References: <373.80865d9.320a3a69@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060815175724.GB25458@pglaf.org> On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 03:05:13PM -0400, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > > i do love me the handwritten. > > while speaking of alice, though, > #11 needs an extreme makeover. > > i do have a z.m.l. version, with > all of its auxiliary versions too, > if you want it... I think I already said "yes," to this. Send it in! -- Greg From kth at srv.net Tue Aug 15 14:22:58 2006 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Tue Aug 15 14:06:48 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <1155520183.44dfd6b7e16ea@webmail.netspace.net.au> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> <1155520183.44dfd6b7e16ea@webmail.netspace.net.au> Message-ID: <44E23B32.2050303@srv.net> rnmscott@netspace.net.au wrote: >Ok, is one way to do it make the whole thing a DP project then? > >List all books, have all the volunteers fill in subjects for the ones they >know into some standard file that becomes machine readable, then has a >checking process like other stuff, and books are removed from the list once >done? > > Don't forget that some books will fit under multiple categories. Think along the lines of "The Klingon Singing Cook Book." I don't know if such a thing exists, but you get the idea. And you will want to standardize the categories. Otherwise you will have "cook book", "cook books" "cooking books", "cajun cooking books", "coook book", etc. From JBuck814366460 at aol.com Tue Aug 15 19:13:35 2006 From: JBuck814366460 at aol.com (Jared Buck) Date: Tue Aug 15 19:13:43 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <44DFE73D.1060707@ibiblio.org> References: <5c68395c5bfd.5c5bfd5c6839@ncf.ca> <44DF2678.2050504@perathoner.de> <6d99d1fd0608130950n1e44d7cau2c7d4e269f70d55f@mail.gmail.com> <44DFA1EA.1020409@ibiblio.org> <44DFC437.6040204@perathoner.de> <44DFE73D.1060707@ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <44E27F4E.9010805@aol.com> I didn't expect to see this much conversation, but I'm glad to get such a variety of responses. Of course I would help with cataloging the books by subject. :) Jared Michael Dyck wrote on 13/08/2006, 8:00 PM: > [off-list] > > Marcello Perathoner wrote: > > Michael Dyck wrote: > > > > > >>It looks like about 1/3 of DP projects have a valid LCCN (that I could > >>find, anyway). For the 8890 titles that PG has posted from DP, the > >>fraction is slightly less. Here is the PG# -> LCCN mapping for 2238 of > >>them: > >> > >>http://www.pgdp.net/noncvs/LCCN/map.txt > > > > > > Not bad. I'll crash now but I'll import them tomorrow. > > Actually, it turns out there are further archives that I didn't find, so > I should have an improved version soonish. > > -Michael > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > -- . .:. .:::. .:::::. ***.:::::::.*** *******.:::::::::.******* Dmitri Yalovsky ********.:::::::::::.******** ********.:::::::::::::.******** USS Authority *******.::::::'***`::::.******* ******.::::'*********`::.****** Asst. Chief of Engineering ****.:::'*************`:.**** *.::'*****************`.* .:' *************** . . From hart at pglaf.org Wed Aug 16 08:38:40 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Wed Aug 16 08:38:42 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" In-Reply-To: <20060815175724.GB25458@pglaf.org> References: <373.80865d9.320a3a69@aol.com> <20060815175724.GB25458@pglaf.org> Message-ID: hasn't alice11 already received several makeovers, thus creating the higher numbered editions? Or is this a different #11 you are referring to? On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Greg Newby wrote: > On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 03:05:13PM -0400, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: >> >> i do love me the handwritten. >> >> while speaking of alice, though, >> #11 needs an extreme makeover. >> >> i do have a z.m.l. version, with >> all of its auxiliary versions too, >> if you want it... > > I think I already said "yes," to this. Send it in! > -- Greg > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From joshua at hutchinson.net Wed Aug 16 09:22:17 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Wed Aug 16 09:22:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" Message-ID: <20060816162217.81A4A4F607@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Alice is the 11th book in the collection. http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/11 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Hart" > To: gbnewby@pglaf.org, "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:38:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > hasn't alice11 already received several makeovers, > thus creating the higher numbered editions? > > Or is this a different #11 you are referring to? > > > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Greg Newby wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 03:05:13PM -0400, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> i do love me the handwritten. > >> > >> while speaking of alice, though, > >> #11 needs an extreme makeover. > >> > >> i do have a z.m.l. version, with > >> all of its auxiliary versions too, > >> if you want it... > > > > I think I already said "yes," to this. Send it in! > > -- Greg > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Aug 16 09:51:27 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 16 09:51:47 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" Message-ID: michael said: > hasn't alice11 already received several makeovers, > thus creating the higher numbered editions? i'm talking about e-text #11. however many makeovers it might have had has not been sufficient... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060816/28e4309c/attachment.html From joshua at hutchinson.net Wed Aug 16 11:29:31 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Wed Aug 16 11:29:37 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files Message-ID: <20060816182931.A5ABB9EF24@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> I remember discussing this before, but I can't remember what the final word on it was. Librivox (www.librivox.org) has quite a few audio readings taken from our texts. They are released to the public domain (no copyright on them at all). http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881&sid=b24c8b14c49472aab8f7f410aa0bf3da The individual audio book pages on www.archive.org links to this CC Public Domain notice: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ My question is this: Do we need to run a separete clearance request before posting audio files under the PG text number they came from? For example, if I grabbed Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (http://librivox.org/dorothy-and-the-wizard-in-oz-by-l-frank-baum/) and with David reposted it under our etext #420 (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/420), do I need to first get a new clearance? (I'm planing on redoing the text as a TEI master at the same time, so we'll get TEI and PDF along with the existing file formats). Thanks, Josh PS Greg, can you run by the copyright clearances and clear my "special cases"? I've got 40 books ready to post from bahai.reference.org as soon as the clearances are approved. :) From ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca Wed Aug 16 12:04:55 2006 From: ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca (Wallace J.McLean) Date: Wed Aug 16 12:04:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <2fa2f2c893.2c8932fa2f@ncf.ca> ----- Original Message ----- >From Kevin Handy Date Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:22:58 -0600 To Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject Re: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? > Don't forget that some books will fit under multiple categories. > Think along the lines of "The Klingon Singing Cook Book." I > don't know if such a thing exists, but you get the idea. Which any decent library already takes into account when cataloguing, which is why it would be easiest to catalogue under any and all pre- existing catalogue headings as given in major national library catalogues like LOC, AMICUS, British libraries, etc., etc., etc., unless, of course, there is a patently wrong catalogue entry. (That happens.) From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Wed Aug 16 13:46:33 2006 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Wed Aug 16 13:46:46 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <2fa2f2c893.2c8932fa2f@ncf.ca> References: <2fa2f2c893.2c8932fa2f@ncf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:04:55 -0400, "Wallace J.McLean" wrote: |----- Original Message ----- |>From Kevin Handy |Date Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:22:58 -0600 |To Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion |Subject Re: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? | |> Don't forget that some books will fit under multiple categories. |> Think along the lines of "The Klingon Singing Cook Book." I |> don't know if such a thing exists, but you get the idea. | |Which any decent library already takes into account when cataloguing, |which is why it would be easiest to catalogue under any and all pre- |existing catalogue headings as given in major national library |catalogues like LOC, AMICUS, British libraries, etc., etc., etc., |unless, of course, there is a patently wrong catalogue entry. (That |happens.) Which happens quite often in the real world. My local library catalogues Jean Auel's, Earth's Children books http://www.geocities.com/auelpage/auel.html as Science Fiction :-( IMO Would be better Historical Fiction, or Historical Fantasy, or Fantasy -- Dave Fawthrop From joshua at hutchinson.net Wed Aug 16 14:04:10 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Wed Aug 16 14:04:13 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <20060816210410.88B0F2F97C@ws6-3.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Fawthrop" > > Which happens quite often in the real world. My local library catalogues > Jean Auel's, Earth's Children books > http://www.geocities.com/auelpage/auel.html as Science Fiction :-( > IMO Would be better Historical Fiction, or Historical Fantasy, or Fantasy Actually, the idea that any one woman could invent so many fundamental, society shifting things in the course of a couple years ... that *is* science fiction. Stone-age science fiction, but science fiction. (Add in the literary porn aspects and you can see why every nerd in high school read those books cover to cover!) ;) Josh From hart at pglaf.org Wed Aug 16 14:16:20 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Wed Aug 16 14:16:22 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <20060816210410.88B0F2F97C@ws6-3.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060816210410.88B0F2F97C@ws6-3.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Fawthrop" >> >> Which happens quite often in the real world. My local library catalogues >> Jean Auel's, Earth's Children books >> http://www.geocities.com/auelpage/auel.html as Science Fiction :-( >> IMO Would be better Historical Fiction, or Historical Fantasy, or Fantasy > > Actually, the idea that any one woman could invent so many fundamental, society shifting things in the course of a couple years ... that *is* science fiction. Stone-age science fiction, but science fiction. > > (Add in the literary porn aspects and you can see why every nerd in high school read those books cover to cover!) ;) > > Josh Of course no one challenges the "fact" that Thales, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, Diogenes, etc., could have made their changes. If they had lived so much earlier, couldn't they possibly have made much wider changes in societies less well developed? Each of the names mentioned above took what was available and added huge amounts more. . .couldn't it be that the earlier the more??? Just look at how many people like to challenge my own little changes made to the very young virtual world. Some already say I wasn't there, that my computer wasn't there, at least in their virtual space, as was written down on some scholar's list. Just think how much of that sort of thing will happen after I am gone. ;-))) But the eBooks will remain. . .and that's the whole point, proving it CAN be done. . . . Setting the foundations for others to build on. mh From sly at victoria.tc.ca Wed Aug 16 14:18:04 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Wed Aug 16 14:18:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files In-Reply-To: <20060816182931.A5ABB9EF24@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060816182931.A5ABB9EF24@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: I believe that experience has shown that, in a case such as you mention below, it would work better to have an audio book posted under a new number. Andrew On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > I remember discussing this before, but I can't remember what the final word on it was. > > Librivox (www.librivox.org) has quite a few audio readings taken from our texts. They are released to the public domain (no copyright on them at all). > > http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881&sid=b24c8b14c49472aab8f7f410aa0bf3da > > The individual audio book pages on www.archive.org links to this CC Public Domain notice: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ > > My question is this: > > Do we need to run a separete clearance request before posting audio files under the PG text number they came from? > > For example, if I grabbed Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (http://librivox.org/dorothy-and-the-wizard-in-oz-by-l-frank-baum/) and with David reposted it under our etext #420 (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/420), do I need to first get a new clearance? (I'm planing on redoing the text as a TEI master at the same time, so we'll get TEI and PDF along with the existing file formats). > > Thanks, > Josh From hart at pglaf.org Wed Aug 16 14:22:05 2006 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Wed Aug 16 14:22:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] New "Alice" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Go for it! Remake it to your own satisfaction! On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > michael said: >> hasn't alice11 already received several makeovers, >> thus creating the higher numbered editions? > > i'm talking about e-text #11. > > however many makeovers it might > have had has not been sufficient... > > -bowerbird > From joshua at hutchinson.net Thu Aug 17 05:19:27 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Thu Aug 17 05:19:28 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files Message-ID: <20060817121927.23F7CEE838@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> Really? In my experience, the only thing we've learned from audio files is that the fastest way to start a flame war on gutvol-d is to post a whole bunch of audio files of PG texts in new numbers! :) Seriously, since these texts are specifically read from PG texts, posting them in a new number seems a waste to me, but I'm willing to listen to arguments for why that should be. JHutch > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Sly" > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:18:04 -0700 (PDT) > > > > I believe that experience has shown that, in a case such as > you mention below, it would work better to have an audio > book posted under a new number. > > > Andrew > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > I remember discussing this before, but I can't remember what the final word > > on it was. > > > > Librivox (www.librivox.org) has quite a few audio readings taken from our > > texts. They are released to the public domain (no copyright on them at all). > > > > http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881&sid=b24c8b14c49472aab8f7f410aa0bf3da > > > > The individual audio book pages on www.archive.org links to this CC Public > > Domain notice: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ > > > > My question is this: > > > > Do we need to run a separete clearance request before posting audio files > > under the PG text number they came from? > > > > For example, if I grabbed Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz > > (http://librivox.org/dorothy-and-the-wizard-in-oz-by-l-frank-baum/) and with > > David reposted it under our etext #420 (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/420), > > do I need to first get a new clearance? (I'm planing on redoing the text as > > a TEI master at the same time, so we'll get TEI and PDF along with the > > existing file formats). > > > > Thanks, > > Josh > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From sly at victoria.tc.ca Thu Aug 17 09:23:32 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Thu Aug 17 09:23:37 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files In-Reply-To: <20060817121927.23F7CEE838@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060817121927.23F7CEE838@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: It can create problems from the cataloging point of view. You could have a situation where an ebook is updated, and the audio book cannot easily be, so the two are not "in-sync". The process of creating an audio book from a PG text is not merely one of reformatting, or adding markup. There is substantial creative effort involved. (to the point where the result will be markedly different, if done by different individuals.) To use copyright lingo, this is clearly a "derivative work." It is derived from the original text, but is also a new item of its own. For popular titles it could easily be possible to eventually end up with multiple readings of them. Trying to keep these distinct for a user if they are all on the same bibliographic record page would be no fun at all. And forgive me for stating a truism here. Unlike text files, each recorded instance of spoken word or music is unique. You can't run a diff over two individually produced versions and create one improved version from the results. :) Does that seem reasonable? (and hopefully understandable) Andrew On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > Really? In my experience, the only thing we've learned from audio files is that the fastest way to start a flame war on gutvol-d is to post a whole bunch of audio files of PG texts in new numbers! :) > > Seriously, since these texts are specifically read from PG texts, posting them in a new number seems a waste to me, but I'm willing to listen to arguments for why that should be. > > JHutch > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andrew Sly" > > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:18:04 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > I believe that experience has shown that, in a case such as > > you mention below, it would work better to have an audio > > book posted under a new number. > > > > > > Andrew > > > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > > > I remember discussing this before, but I can't remember what the final word > > > on it was. > > > > > > Librivox (www.librivox.org) has quite a few audio readings taken from our > > > texts. They are released to the public domain (no copyright on them at all). > > > > > > http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881&sid=b24c8b14c49472aab8f7f410aa0bf3da > > > > > > The individual audio book pages on www.archive.org links to this CC Public > > > Domain notice: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ > > > > > > My question is this: > > > > > > Do we need to run a separete clearance request before posting audio files > > > under the PG text number they came from? > > > > > > For example, if I grabbed Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz > > > (http://librivox.org/dorothy-and-the-wizard-in-oz-by-l-frank-baum/) and with > > > David reposted it under our etext #420 (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/420), > > > do I need to first get a new clearance? (I'm planing on redoing the text as > > > a TEI master at the same time, so we'll get TEI and PDF along with the > > > existing file formats). > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Aug 17 09:54:26 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 17 09:54:34 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files Message-ID: <587.3221842.3215f942@aol.com> andrew said: > And forgive me for stating a truism here. Unlike text files, > each recorded instance of spoken word or music is unique. > You can't run a diff over two individually produced versions > and create one improved version from the results. :) if i remember correctly, andrew, you are blind? which makes this observation even more compelling to me... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060817/593fbf42/attachment.html From sly at victoria.tc.ca Thu Aug 17 10:04:40 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Thu Aug 17 10:04:45 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files In-Reply-To: <587.3221842.3215f942@aol.com> References: <587.3221842.3215f942@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: > andrew said: > > And forgive me for stating a truism here. Unlike text files, > > each recorded instance of spoken word or music is unique. > > You can't run a diff over two individually produced versions > > and create one improved version from the results. :) > > if i remember correctly, andrew, you are blind? > > which makes this observation even more compelling to me... > > -bowerbird > No, I am not blind. However, I have spent enough time staring at a computer screen that the perscription for my glasses has noticably changed. (and I'm not even 30 yet--gotta look after my eyes here.) You were thinking of someone else who has posted on this mailing list. However, I can't remember who it was. Andrew From joshua at hutchinson.net Thu Aug 17 10:14:16 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Thu Aug 17 10:14:19 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files Message-ID: <20060817171416.F3BC4109B6C@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> Yep, that makes perfect sense. Thanks, Andrew. I'll see about getting the audio files posted under their own number. Josh > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Sly" > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:23:32 -0700 (PDT) > > > > It can create problems from the cataloging point of view. > > You could have a situation where an ebook is updated, and > the audio book cannot easily be, so the two are not "in-sync". > > The process of creating an audio book from a PG text is > not merely one of reformatting, or adding markup. There > is substantial creative effort involved. (to the point > where the result will be markedly different, if done > by different individuals.) > > To use copyright lingo, this is clearly a "derivative work." > It is derived from the original text, but is also a new item > of its own. > > For popular titles it could easily be possible to eventually > end up with multiple readings of them. Trying to keep these > distinct for a user if they are all on the same bibliographic > record page would be no fun at all. > > And forgive me for stating a truism here. Unlike text files, > each recorded instance of spoken word or music is unique. > You can't run a diff over two individually produced versions > and create one improved version from the results. :) > > > Does that seem reasonable? (and hopefully understandable) > > Andrew > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > Really? In my experience, the only thing we've learned from audio files is > > that the fastest way to start a flame war on gutvol-d is to post a whole > > bunch of audio files of PG texts in new numbers! :) > > > > Seriously, since these texts are specifically read from PG texts, posting > > them in a new number seems a waste to me, but I'm willing to listen to > > arguments for why that should be. > > > > JHutch > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Andrew Sly" > > > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > > > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files > > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:18:04 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that experience has shown that, in a case such as > > > you mention below, it would work better to have an audio > > > book posted under a new number. > > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > > > > > I remember discussing this before, but I can't remember what the final > > word > > > > on it was. > > > > > > > > Librivox (www.librivox.org) has quite a few audio readings taken from our > > > > texts. They are released to the public domain (no copyright on them at > > all). > > > > > > > > > > http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881&sid=b24c8b14c49472aab8f7f410aa0bf3da > > > > > > > > The individual audio book pages on www.archive.org links to this CC > > Public > > > > Domain notice: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ > > > > > > > > My question is this: > > > > > > > > Do we need to run a separete clearance request before posting audio files > > > > under the PG text number they came from? > > > > > > > > For example, if I grabbed Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz > > > > (http://librivox.org/dorothy-and-the-wizard-in-oz-by-l-frank-baum/) and > > with > > > > David reposted it under our etext #420 > > (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/420), > > > > do I need to first get a new clearance? (I'm planing on redoing the > > text as > > > > a TEI master at the same time, so we'll get TEI and PDF along with the > > > > existing file formats). > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Josh > > > _______________________________________________ > > > gutvol-d mailing list > > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From sly at victoria.tc.ca Thu Aug 17 10:38:01 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Thu Aug 17 10:38:04 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files In-Reply-To: <20060817171416.F3BC4109B6C@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060817171416.F3BC4109B6C@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the reply. There's one more comparison I ment to make, but forgot before I hit "send". Try thinking of a traditional library. A book of "The three muskateers", and a spoken word audio version, and a movie version, would clearly each be under different headings, as separate items. However, if you had multiple formats that were produced and published as a whole, they would be under one heading. (A good example would be a CD with liner notes, or a language learning course in a book, with a recording of spoken examples.) So on this basis, I would have suggested that PG's Janis Ian's "Society's Child" be posted all as one number, instead of #3001 (the lyrics) and #3002 (sound files). Andrew On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > Yep, that makes perfect sense. > > Thanks, Andrew. > > I'll see about getting the audio files posted under their own number. > > Josh > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andrew Sly" > > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:23:32 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > It can create problems from the cataloging point of view. > > > > You could have a situation where an ebook is updated, and > > the audio book cannot easily be, so the two are not "in-sync". > > > > The process of creating an audio book from a PG text is > > not merely one of reformatting, or adding markup. There > > is substantial creative effort involved. (to the point > > where the result will be markedly different, if done > > by different individuals.) > > > > To use copyright lingo, this is clearly a "derivative work." > > It is derived from the original text, but is also a new item > > of its own. > > > > For popular titles it could easily be possible to eventually > > end up with multiple readings of them. Trying to keep these > > distinct for a user if they are all on the same bibliographic > > record page would be no fun at all. > > > > And forgive me for stating a truism here. Unlike text files, > > each recorded instance of spoken word or music is unique. > > You can't run a diff over two individually produced versions > > and create one improved version from the results. :) > > > > > > Does that seem reasonable? (and hopefully understandable) > > > > Andrew > > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > > > Really? In my experience, the only thing we've learned from audio files is > > > that the fastest way to start a flame war on gutvol-d is to post a whole > > > bunch of audio files of PG texts in new numbers! :) > > > > > > Seriously, since these texts are specifically read from PG texts, posting > > > them in a new number seems a waste to me, but I'm willing to listen to > > > arguments for why that should be. > > > > > > JHutch > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Andrew Sly" > > > > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > > > > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Librivox audio files > > > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:18:04 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that experience has shown that, in a case such as > > > > you mention below, it would work better to have an audio > > > > book posted under a new number. > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > > > > > > > I remember discussing this before, but I can't remember what the final > > > word > > > > > on it was. > > > > > > > > > > Librivox (www.librivox.org) has quite a few audio readings taken from our > > > > > texts. They are released to the public domain (no copyright on them at > > > all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881&sid=b24c8b14c49472aab8f7f410aa0bf3da > > > > > > > > > > The individual audio book pages on www.archive.org links to this CC > > > Public > > > > > Domain notice: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ > > > > > > > > > > My question is this: > > > > > > > > > > Do we need to run a separete clearance request before posting audio files > > > > > under the PG text number they came from? > > > > > > > > > > For example, if I grabbed Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz > > > > > (http://librivox.org/dorothy-and-the-wizard-in-oz-by-l-frank-baum/) and > > > with > > > > > David reposted it under our etext #420 > > > (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/420), > > > > > do I need to first get a new clearance? (I'm planing on redoing the > > > text as > > > > > a TEI master at the same time, so we'll get TEI and PDF along with the > > > > > existing file formats). > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > gutvol-d mailing list > > > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > gutvol-d mailing list > > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Aug 17 21:30:25 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 17 21:30:41 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] how many books has google scanned so far? Message-ID: hey bruce, what's your latest count on how many books google has scanned? how many public domain? post-1923? -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060818/959747e1/attachment.html From bruce at zuhause.org Mon Aug 21 20:11:46 2006 From: bruce at zuhause.org (Bruce Albrecht) Date: Mon Aug 21 20:33:08 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] how many books has google scanned so far? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17642.30194.857581.141271@celery.zuhause.org> Bowerbird@aol.com writes: > hey bruce, what's your latest count on > how many books google has scanned? > > how many public domain? post-1923? When I search, I request a publication date range of 0-1922, so I shouldn't see any post-1922 works. I deleted the original table with the Google IDs for books that appear to be pre-1923 and are not available for full view, but I've been running a new search (still ongoing). At the moment, I've found 86,000 full view books, and 30,000 books with either no view, or snippet view. If you want to check it out further, go to http://www.pdbooks.zuhause.org/ I'm still working on getting MARC records from libraries for each title, but I've only got MARC records so far for about half of them. Even so, many of the older works have limited information, for example no subject categorizations. I probably won't have time to add any user validation code so that people will be able to "reserve" titles, or add additional notes about titles until September. Bruce From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Aug 21 23:57:28 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 21 23:57:34 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] how many books has google scanned so far? Message-ID: <3c1.9922dc6.321c04d8@aol.com> bruce said: > At the moment, I've found 86,000 full view books, > and 30,000 books with either no view, or snippet view. thank you! -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060822/758e2d82/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Aug 23 12:11:06 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:11:21 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] most interesting lecture i've heard in a very long time Message-ID: <225.4463080.321e024a@aol.com> see this blog entry from "joel on software" for a discussion about cataloging a library: > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.378798.0 although that topic has much relevance here, the reason for this message is a comment on that entry that pointed to this video of a lecture: > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8246463980976635143 the talk -- about "games with a purpose" -- is the most interesting lecture i've heard in a long time, and is a rather stunning exposition of some of the things i've talked about in the past here, in regard to summoning the power of distributed effort on the net. one such post was on "the amazing turk" at amazon, which farms out tasks requiring human intelligence to people who are paid a small amount to fulfill them. this lecture goes one step further by turning the tasks into _games_, which people play just for the fun of it. the twist is that, when the game is structured correctly, people furnish very-high-quality data, and _lots_ of it. given the difficulty of the challenges already taken on -- one big example is labeling images on the web -- plus the success achieved, something as dirt-simple as the correction of typos in o.c.r. results is well-assured; and even much more difficult problems like translations suddenly seem much more within reach than they were... but the most fascinating aspect of all of these applications is that people are creating valuable data in the process of _playing_games_... they're not just volunteering their time out of a sense of duty or obligation. they are having _fun_. without impugning the nobility of any altruistic volunteers, it seems to me that fun is a much more dependable motive. all in all, his research shows luis von ahn is a sharp cookie; his lecture is 50+ minutes long, but it's well worth the time. -bowerbird > www.captcha.net > www.espgame.org > www.peekaboom.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060823/28a79626/attachment.html From grendelkhan at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 14:26:06 2006 From: grendelkhan at gmail.com (grendelkhan) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:26:13 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <26b51c320608231426k28b2cf30m9f65a24985f21335@mail.gmail.com> > From: "Wallace J.McLean" > To: gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:04:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? > > Which any decent library already takes into account when cataloguing, > which is why it would be easiest to catalogue under any and all pre- > existing catalogue headings as given in major national library > catalogues like LOC, AMICUS, British libraries, etc., etc., etc., > unless, of course, there is a patently wrong catalogue entry. (That > happens.) If I recall (Andrew, please correct me if I'm wrong), there's was previously a cataloguer who was putting in that sort of thing, see (random example) http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2852 which is filed under "Holmes, Sherlock (Fictitious character) -- Fiction" as well as "Private investigators -- England -- Fiction", and its LCC class (PR, English literature). Andrew said that this hasn't been done in a while, but if there's interest, I'm going to be entering a Library Science program this fall, which I reckon would make me an incipient professional librarian--I'd be quite interested in applying cataloguing standards to the PG catalog. From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Aug 23 14:40:51 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:41:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <4c5.708f6b00.321e2563@aol.com> grendelkhan said: > I'm going to be entering a Library Science program this fall, > which I reckon would make me an incipient professional librarian-- > I'd be quite interested in applying cataloguing standards to the PG catalog. yes, that would be a good project for you... :+) and perhaps even a more useful one would be making a system so people searching worldcat (and similar global catalogs) could _discover_ the p.g. versions of books they were seeking, and then _download_ them with a single click. let's make p.g. books _convenient_ for people... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060823/f47445d0/attachment.html From sly at victoria.tc.ca Wed Aug 23 23:57:13 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:57:17 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Project Gutenberg mentioned on Russian web page Message-ID: Well, it's nice to see PG getting some exposure in other languages. Take a look at: http://www.classes.ru/ebooks-in-english.htm Andrew From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Aug 24 01:00:46 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 24 01:00:58 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] No Subject Message-ID: <266.e9d5f62.321eb6ae@aol.com> guess who said this to whom: > "The good news is that you guys have managed to buy > every major legislative body in the planet, but you know > the problem is, the bad news is that you're up against > a dedicated foe that is younger and smarter than you are > and will be alive when you are dead, and has historical forces > on its side, and is using its technological acumen very adeptly to > ward off all your efforts of control and you're gonna lose that one. > I mean you're fifty-five years old and these kids are seventeen and > they're just smarter than you are. So you're gonna lose that one. > But the good news is you guys are mean sons of bitches and you've > been figuring out ways to rip off audiences and artists for centuries really, > and all you gotta do is get outta bed a little earlier in the morning for a spell > and you'll find new ways of doing it. I have every faith in you and you should > give yourselves credit, instead of howling that you're going to be victimized. > It's not like you to be victimized."? scroll down for the answer... > -- EFF Founder and Grateful Dead lyricist John Perry Barlow delivers a razor-wire > bouquet to Motion Picture Association of America President Dan Glickman. -bowerbird p.s. compliments of neal lipner, via the bob lefsetz listserve. bob is a great read... > http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060824/0df20631/attachment.html From marcello at perathoner.de Thu Aug 24 07:56:07 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Thu Aug 24 07:56:12 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] OT: Face the free music! In-Reply-To: <266.e9d5f62.321eb6ae@aol.com> References: <266.e9d5f62.321eb6ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <44EDBE07.9070502@perathoner.de> Bowerbird@aol.com wrote: >> "The good news is that you guys have managed to buy every major >> legislative body in the planet, but you know the problem is, the >> bad news is that you're up against a dedicated foe that is younger >> and smarter than you are and will be alive when you are dead, and >> has historical forces on its side, and is using its technological >> acumen very adeptly to ward off all your efforts of control and >> you're gonna lose that one. The properties of the individuals involved don't mean a thing. The important thing is: we made of late an interesting technological advance that oversteps the narrow assumptions that govern capitalism. Capitalism is a *great* thing. I mean it. It saved us from the clutches of the clergy. It fostered science, it organized human productivity making us more productive than ever before. But capitalism has come to its limits. Capitalism is based on the assumption that things are costly to replicate, eg. that it costs money to replicate a bag of potatoes (you have to stuff some back into the earth, tend them, reap them out again, store them, sell them, etc.). OTOH the cost of replicating information is neglectible. This is new. Bits are flying thru the lighted fibers of the earth and arranging themselves on magnetic platters as of magic. The cost of the replication is epsilon compared to the benefits. Capitalism -- and the law system capitalism has engendered -- doesn't mix well with things that replicate for free. This is why we get attrition everyplace capitalism and information-driven technology get in touch. The whole idea of "property" is firmly rooted in the fact that property cannot easily be replicated. If I could replicate my car, what would I care if it gets stolen? What for would I need laws that protect my car from being stolen? Take it, be my guest. I'll just download a new one. One way out is to force old capitalistic rules onto new technology. Patents, Copyrights, Digital Restrictions Managements, etc. This keeps the status quo but in the long run stifles the productivity of the human race. Furthermore it wastes a lot of resources in attempting to prevent people from doing what they want to do, because it's natural for them to do, like giving a book to your best friend. More control, more police, more law-suits. The other way out is to free productivity. Great things already have been done beyond the horizon of capitalistic-organized production. GNU, Linux, Apache, Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg, ... all these are best-of-class efforts, superior to anything capitalism has been able to do, done by people who *organized themselves* on the Net. We don't need capitalistic organizations in intellectual production any more. The Net is a superior way of organizing intellectual production. The Net is a more fertile environment for growing ideas than any corporate environment. And this is only the beginning. We are still a far way off realizing the full potential of the Net. As hosting costs will continue to drop all capitalistic-driven ventures like google, yahoo, itunes, myspace, etc. will be equalled and surpassed by free alternatives. This is no vision, this is just plain rational thinking. (Because its easier to give a book away than to sell it. Not only is the price better but you don't need DRM, shops, payments and all the other stuff capitalistic production shoves in the way of the users intention, which is to just get hold of a copy of the book.) "This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do." -- Woody Guthrie The Greatful Dead always allowed free taping of their concerts. Many other great artists give their stuff away. Music production will change. Music distribution will change. The investments necessary to keep the media circus of capitalistic music industry going in the face of free competition will eventually kill them off. Amen. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From marcello at perathoner.de Thu Aug 24 19:25:03 2006 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:25:07 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG Wiki is online Message-ID: <44EE5F7F.6050801@perathoner.de> I switched the site to use the wiki software. Please check your favorite section of the site (esp. Sub-Projects) and report everything that is broken to me. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org From Catenacci at Ieee.Org Fri Aug 25 10:37:08 2006 From: Catenacci at Ieee.Org (Onorio Catenacci) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:38:41 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox and PG Message-ID: Hi all, I thought this article in the NY Times might be of some interest to the folks who subscribe to this mailing list: It's discussing Librivox--which is a volunteer effort to make audiobooks of public domain works. Project Gutenberg is mentioned in passing. -- Onorio Catenacci We're all just doves, Trying to find our way home. From joshua at hutchinson.net Fri Aug 25 11:57:57 2006 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (Joshua Hutchinson) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:57:58 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox and PG Message-ID: <20060825185757.625944F5B4@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Yep, we even mention them in some of our FAQ pages. :) And I'll start posting lots of them to the catalog if *GREG NEWBY* ever catches up on his backlog of 142 clearances waiting for his approval! Josh PS Do you think that was enough emphasis to get Greg to notice? ;) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Onorio Catenacci" > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox and PG > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0400 > > > Hi all, > > I thought this article in the NY Times might be of some interest to > the folks who subscribe to this mailing list: > > > > It's discussing Librivox--which is a volunteer effort to make > audiobooks of public domain works. Project Gutenberg is mentioned in > passing. > > -- Onorio Catenacci > > We're all just doves, > Trying to find our way home. > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From gbnewby at pglaf.org Sun Aug 27 01:04:15 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Sun Aug 27 01:04:17 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox and PG In-Reply-To: <20060825185757.625944F5B4@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060825185757.625944F5B4@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20060827080415.GB9401@pglaf.org> On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 01:57:57PM -0500, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > Yep, we even mention them in some of our FAQ pages. :) > > And I'll start posting lots of them to the catalog if *GREG NEWBY* ever catches up on his backlog of 142 clearances waiting for his approval! > > Josh > > PS Do you think that was enough emphasis to get Greg to notice? ;) I need to tweak the copyright clearance system to provide an extra category for these entries, and for the bunch of Bahai that also await my attention. I haven't forgotten... Also, for these, I want to figure out how you can deliver ready-made files that don't need to be touched before pushing to the main sites. -- Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Onorio Catenacci" > > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" > > Subject: [gutvol-d] Librivox and PG > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0400 > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I thought this article in the NY Times might be of some interest to > > the folks who subscribe to this mailing list: > > > > > > > > It's discussing Librivox--which is a volunteer effort to make > > audiobooks of public domain works. Project Gutenberg is mentioned in > > passing. > > > > -- Onorio Catenacci > > > > We're all just doves, > > Trying to find our way home. > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From sly at victoria.tc.ca Sun Aug 27 01:08:56 2006 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Sun Aug 27 01:08:59 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? In-Reply-To: <26b51c320608231426k28b2cf30m9f65a24985f21335@mail.gmail.com> References: <26b51c320608231426k28b2cf30m9f65a24985f21335@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi grendelkhan. Ok, I've put off writing this message for a couple of days, hoping to get my thoughts in order. They don't seem to be there yet, but I hope this is still helpful. Yes, what you say is true. And the most likely way to do this is some form of "copy-cataloging", which, for our present situation would most likely take the form of manually copying subject headings as found in the LoC. From experience, I would suggest that simply trying to keep up with ~50 titles a week, much less deal with the enormous back-log, would be enough to induce burn-out and frustration very quickly. I believe it is something of a misconception that aspects of cataloging (such as subject headings) are merely a matter of "paint-by-numbers" or "fill in the blanks". Every individual collection has its own oddities, and (assuming a well-developed catalog) its own local practices. Wallace's suggestion below, applied to subject headings, would not really be workable, as different libraries do not use the same set of subject headings. (For instance the National Library of Canada defines "Canadian Subject Headings", which are similar to LCSH but more focused on Canadian topics. So then, non-library-sciences people will ask "why not just use whatever looks good from whatever library you find it?" Then the issue of "controlled vocabulary" comes up. If you do not use a controlled vocabulary, you will soon reach a point where what you have is more like freely choosen "key words", rather than real subject headings. For more, you could look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress_Subject_Headings The biggest thing I would like to avoid would be having something that gives the impression of using LCSH, but is not. Library of Congress Classification is a different creature altogether. Keep in mind that it was designed to help with problems of organizing and shelving books in one particular library about 100 years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress_Classification This can lead to (For example, many books of Canadian literature from the time period PG mostly works with are classified by the LoC as British, rather than in the small subset of American liturature that is set aside for Canadian.) Using the first two letters, as has been done for the first few thousand PG books, results in extremely broad catagories. This is better than nothing, but I can't help feeling that something that can respond better to our interests would be ideal. So, what do I mean by that? Some form of social cataloging, or folksonomy, or whatever buzzword you want to use. Yes, this has weaknesses as well, but given the nature of PG and the volunteers contributing to it, I think perhaps a better fit. Andrew On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, grendelkhan wrote: > > From: "Wallace J.McLean" > > To: gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:04:55 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? > > > > Which any decent library already takes into account when cataloguing, > > which is why it would be easiest to catalogue under any and all pre- > > existing catalogue headings as given in major national library > > catalogues like LOC, AMICUS, British libraries, etc., etc., etc., > > unless, of course, there is a patently wrong catalogue entry. (That > > happens.) > > If I recall (Andrew, please correct me if I'm wrong), there's was previously > a cataloguer who was putting in that sort of thing, see (random example) > > http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2852 > > which is filed under "Holmes, Sherlock (Fictitious character) -- Fiction" > as well as "Private investigators -- England -- Fiction", and its LCC class > (PR, English literature). Andrew said that this hasn't been done in a > while, but if there's interest, I'm going to be entering a Library Science > program this fall, which I reckon would make me an incipient professional > librarian--I'd be quite interested in applying cataloguing standards to the > PG catalog. From ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca Sun Aug 27 12:46:36 2006 From: ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca (Wallace J.McLean) Date: Sun Aug 27 12:46:40 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by subject for ebooks? Message-ID: <1576b115429d.15429d1576b1@ncf.ca> > Wallace's suggestion below, applied to subject headings, would not > really be workable, as different libraries do not use the > same set of subject headings. (For instance the National > Library of Canada defines "Canadian Subject Headings", which > are similar to LCSH but more focused on Canadian topics. Aha! A good reason to perhaps use NLC codes for works of CanCon (Canadian Content for those not in on the reference.) The proofreading is distributed... the reorganization of the file system was done on a piecework basis... why not the cataloguing? Bit by bit, there aren't THAT many titles in the overall scheme of things. We'd need rules and volunteers. In the little dictatorship that is my own library, I catalogued nearly a thousand books and several hundred discs in a fairly brief time, and have added to it on a piecemeal go-forward basis ever since. From user5013 at aol.com Mon Aug 28 23:01:25 2006 From: user5013 at aol.com (Christa & Jay Toser) Date: Mon Aug 28 23:01:56 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by Subject In-Reply-To: <20060828190005.605358CC22@pglaf.org> References: <20060828190005.605358CC22@pglaf.org> Message-ID: <51B7F023-8B50-4F54-9E87-F506E20E5029@aol.com> Hi, Mr. McLean does have a good point. And there is enough activity on this thread to indicate great interest. Great interest usually results in people doing something (like volunteering to help). It's just, no one wants to start the cataloging by subject, it seems mostly, because we lack consensus on which system to use, or whether to start our own. To decide on that, apparently will take a meeting of minds. Dare I use the "C" word? Committee? On Aug 28, 2006, at 2:00 PM, gutvol-d-request@lists.pglaf.org wrote: > 1. Re: Re: Search by subject for ebooks? (Wallace J.McLean) > > The proofreading is distributed... the reorganization of the file > system was done on a piecework basis... why not the cataloguing? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060829/b18c872e/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Aug 29 16:53:06 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 29 16:53:15 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] some more public-domain heroes Message-ID: <3b5.631cbda.32262d62@aol.com> looks like we have some more public-domain heroes. jared benedict bought a copy of all the topological maps from the u.s.g.s -- which are in the public domain, but were _not_ all conveniently located in one single place -- and "held them for ransom" until he raised the $1600 he'd spent to purchase 'em, from volunteer contributions. "pay up or the map gets it", read the cute ransom note. (as far as i can tell, it looks like it took him just one day.) now he's sending the maps off to the internet archive, where they can be housed under a common interface, which might well prompt a flurry of derivative uses... so here's a big cheer for each of the people who donated some ransom money to free the maps, and three cheers to jared for spearheading this collaborative venture! :+) > http://redjar.org = jared's home site > http://libre.redjar.org/maps/ = one page on the project > http://ransom.redjar.org/original_page.html = f.a.q. > http://ransom.redjar.org/ = the list of contributors -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060829/9145ffb9/attachment.html From JBuck814366460 at aol.com Tue Aug 29 18:27:00 2006 From: JBuck814366460 at aol.com (Jared Buck) Date: Tue Aug 29 18:26:49 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Search by Subject In-Reply-To: <51B7F023-8B50-4F54-9E87-F506E20E5029@aol.com> References: <20060828190005.605358CC22@pglaf.org> <51B7F023-8B50-4F54-9E87-F506E20E5029@aol.com> Message-ID: <44F4E964.2040507@aol.com> Whatever works, as long as a consensus or agreement on a system to use is reached. A committee is a good way to help us decide what to do. Jared Christa & Jay Toser wrote on 28/08/2006, 11:01 PM: > Hi, > > Mr. McLean does have a good point. And there is enough activity on > this thread to indicate great interest. > Great interest usually results in people doing something (like > volunteering to help). > > It's just, no one wants to start the cataloging by subject, it seems > mostly, because we lack consensus on which system to use, or whether > to start our own. > > To decide on that, apparently will take a meeting of minds. Dare I > use the "C" word? Committee? > > > On Aug 28, 2006, at 2:00 PM, gutvol-d-request@lists.pglaf.org wrote: > >> 1. Re: Re: Search by subject for ebooks? (Wallace J.McLean) >> >> >> The proofreading is distributed... the reorganization of the file >> >> system was done on a piecework basis... why not the cataloguing? > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From gegut at edwardjohnson.com Wed Aug 30 07:40:03 2006 From: gegut at edwardjohnson.com (G. Edward Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 30 08:06:35 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Googlebooks pdf downloads Message-ID: <15529.65.242.47.185.1156948803.squirrel@webmail6.pair.com> I just saw this: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/08/29/google_books_offers_.html Google Books has started offering downloads of their public domain books as PDF files. You can search for 'free view' books to find them. Example: http://books.google.com/books?id=HKackp-vG-YC From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Aug 30 12:41:31 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 30 12:41:49 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Googlebooks pdf downloads Message-ID: <385.9f65f4c.322743eb@aol.com> g. edward said: >?? It would seem that, as of this morning, >?? Google has added a "Download PDF" >?? link to their public domain texts fantastic. i was beginning to wonder, since they had never replied to the open letter i sent them. it would still be nice if we could just _buy_ a hard-drive from 'em with all the books on it. imagine how many libraries and schools and universities would leap to make that purchase. and the good will -- and proof of the value of their project -- would benefit google greatly... anyway, now we can get to work on doing o.c.r., and developing some automatic clean-up apps, in order to create a cyberlibrary in z.m.l. format... unless google wants to do _that_ for us too!?????? ;+) -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060830/56ed026d/attachment.html From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Aug 30 12:42:36 2006 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 30 12:43:06 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] Googlebooks pdf downloads Message-ID: <38a.af079cd.3227442c@aol.com> actually, g. edward said this: > Google Books has started offering downloads > of their public domain books as PDF files. > You can search for 'free view' books to find them. but you get the picture... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20060830/f054132d/attachment.html From gbnewby at pglaf.org Thu Aug 31 18:01:49 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Thu Aug 31 18:01:51 2006 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG Wiki In-Reply-To: <44B239B1.4000003@perathoner.de> References: <000001c6a3a2$31797270$0300a8c0@blackbox> <44B239B1.4000003@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <20060901010149.GA4598@pglaf.org> Hi, Marcello. Here are a few things I noticed on the new Wiki pages: On the main page, there is a search box then a button, "Search Book Catalog" Two links underneath is "Browse Book Catalog." A naive user (or one pretending to be) will click on "Search Book Catalog" thinking it is a link to a search page. My suggestion: just use something like "Go" as the text for the search button. That will more clearly link it to the Author/Title search boxes. Alternatively, maybe an extra line separating the search boxes and "Search Book Catalog" will make it more clear. The problem with the current layout (at least on my screen) is that "Search Book Catalog" looks like a menu item. If you just click "Search Book Catalog", the resulting page looks like it comes from the old static pages: http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/results which puts the "Browse Book Catalog" link at the top (different than the wiki pages), and it looks like a heading, not a link. I don't think these labels are needed or add much, in the left side navigation menu on the wiki pages: search book catalog search wiki donate because the content of each area has redundant text. Just a few suggestions. Thanks for this new layout & design, which overall seems quite clean & usable to me. -- Greg