From ke at gnu.franken.de Mon Jan 1 01:27:21 2007 From: ke at gnu.franken.de (Karl Eichwalder) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:27:21 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] phpBB forum needed In-Reply-To: <1e8e65080612311404t59a122ceq364a858fba95207f@mail.gmail.com> (Karen Lofstrom's message of "Sun\, 31 Dec 2006 12\:04\:56 -1000") References: <45980138.1050705@perathoner.de> <5s2gp2t2rah1no1vac7oijc1ov04u66rj6@4ax.com> <459822F9.9010709@perathoner.de> <9c6138c50612311321t6e1bc583k7096b12d6818d729@mail.gmail.com> <1e8e65080612311404t59a122ceq364a858fba95207f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Karen Lofstrom" writes: > I don't think WP is managing very well without it. Conversation is > scattered all over the place, and there's none of the collective fun > and hijinks that make the DP forums work and contribute to the esprit > du corps. Maybe, there is fun somehow involved, but to me forums are mostly annoying. Much noise and little productivity. -- http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/ | ,__o | _-\_<, | (*)/'(*) Key fingerprint = F138 B28F B7ED E0AC 1AB4 AA7F C90A 35C3 E9D0 5D1C From gbnewby at pglaf.org Mon Jan 1 15:54:47 2007 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 15:54:47 -0800 Subject: [gutvol-d] Preview submission changes status to Submitted In-Reply-To: <10146387.1166046827120.JavaMail.?@fh1064.dia.cp.net> References: <10146387.1166046827120.JavaMail.?@fh1064.dia.cp.net> Message-ID: <20070101235447.GA30905@mail.pglaf.org> On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 09:53:47PM +0000, joshua at hutchinson.net wrote: > A better question is: > > Why doesn't the submitted page show the clearance key? Fixed. > Especially since many folks have "blanket clearances" that cover a > whole slew of possible etexts (ie, a blanket clearance that covers a > multi-year run of a particular magazine). Once it is submitted, if you > didn't keep the original clearance email, you're in trouble. > > We probably need to change the submission page to still show the > clearance key. > > Josh > > >----Original Message---- > >From: ajhaines at shaw.ca > >Date: Dec 13, 2006 15:25 > >To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" org> > >Subj: [gutvol-d] Preview submission changes status to Submitted > > > >Why does a Preview Submission change a book's status from Cleared to > >Submitted? Fixed. Let me know of any continuing anomalies... -- Greg > >I'm asking because I just did a Preview to double-check a book's > HTML. > >Because there were a couple of errors, I logged out of PG, fixed the > errors, > >and logged back in to do another Preview submission. I found that > the > >status had been changed to Submitted, which stalls me until someone > (Greg?) > >changes the status back to Cleared. > > > >Correct behavior of the upload page should be to leave a book's > status as > >Cleared until a final (non-Preview) submission is done. > > > >Comments? > > > >Al > >Rainy, windy, generally stormy Victoria (with acknowledgments to > David > >Price) > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >gutvol-d mailing list > >gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From gbnewby at pglaf.org Mon Jan 1 17:28:46 2007 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:28:46 -0800 Subject: [gutvol-d] "music" sub-pages broken @ gutenberg.org Message-ID: <20070102012846.GB315@mail.pglaf.org> Marcello, can you take a look? Or maybe I'm just missing something in how the Wiki works, that I can fix. It seems that the links to scores under the music pages always get redirected back to the music page: The links from here: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:The_Sheet_Music_Project_In_Progress_List like: http://www.gutenberg.org/music/available/haydnop20_33/ go back to the main music page. Thanks for taking a look, and NHY to all! -- Greg From marcello at perathoner.de Tue Jan 2 11:24:49 2007 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:24:49 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] "music" sub-pages broken @ gutenberg.org In-Reply-To: <20070102012846.GB315@mail.pglaf.org> References: <20070102012846.GB315@mail.pglaf.org> Message-ID: <459AB181.6010005@perathoner.de> Greg Newby wrote: > Marcello, can you take a look? Or maybe I'm just missing > something in how the Wiki works, that I can fix. It > seems that the links to scores under the music pages > always get redirected back to the music page: > > The links from here: > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:The_Sheet_Music_Project_In_Progress_List > > like: > http://www.gutenberg.org/music/available/haydnop20_33/ > > go back to the main music page. Fixed. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster at gutenberg.org From nwolcott2ster at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 09:15:49 2007 From: nwolcott2ster at gmail.com (Norm Wolcott) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:15:49 -0500 Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? Message-ID: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> That's what libraries used to be. Not much longer. The Fairfax (VA) library system has adopted a new system of culling books. Due to pressures from new books and patron's desire for cubicles to replace library tables, the space for books has been curtailed. New software spits out the id's of all books not checked out in the last 2 years, and a new list is prepared every 2 weeks. Librarians are issued reminder notices if they are no up to scratch. Books not making the cut are donated to library sales, Friends of the Library, or wherever old books go. This process ensures that almost all 19th and early 20th century books will be disposed of within the coming year. Gibbon, Steinbeck, Sinclair Lewis, Hemmingway. Tenessee Williams are out, probably many 1st editions. So are many reference books which are being replaced by an online "Who's Who". Libraries such as Baltimore in operation since the 1850's hold thousands of 19th Century books. Montgomery County Maryland has a similar dissoloution program in place. This raises the question of preservation, particularly of 20th century books. PG needs to relax its restrictions on non renewed copyrights. Furthermore there needs to be some way of preserving texts from 1922 at least up to 1980. nwolcott2 at post.harvard.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070103/8476d176/attachment.htm From joshua at hutchinson.net Wed Jan 3 09:41:18 2007 From: joshua at hutchinson.net (joshua at hutchinson.net) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:41:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? Message-ID: <28138861.1167846078776.JavaMail.?@fh1037.dia.cp.net> While, as a book lover, I can completely understand the "all books are precious" mentality ... ... as a board of trustee of my local library system, I know that there simply isn't any space left in many libraries. Sometimes, you can build a new library. Often you can't. Something has to give. Also, we are talking about local public libraries. These were never typically great places to find rare books/old books. University/college libraries are MUCH better suited and able to handle this sort of thing. And they do a wonderful job. You have to understand the pressure local libraries are under. If your job is to serve the local community, you have some obligation to serve them with books/movies/etc that they *want* to use. I also don't see a strong connection between this and PG relaxing it's copyright check standards. We have PLENTY of work in the pre-1923 catalogs to keep us all busy for a long time to come. Josh ----Original Message----
From: nwolcott2ster at gmail.com
Date: Jan 3, 2007 12:15
To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion"
Subj: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge?

That's what libraries used to be. Not much longer. The Fairfax (VA) library system has adopted a new system of culling books. Due to pressures from new books and patron's desire for cubicles to replace library tables, the space for books has been curtailed. New software spits out the id's of all books not checked out in the last 2 years, and a new list is prepared every 2 weeks. Librarians are issued reminder notices if they are no up to scratch. Books not making the cut are donated to library sales, Friends of the Library, or wherever old books go. This process ensures that almost all 19th and early 20th century books will be disposed of within the coming year. Gibbon, Steinbeck, Sinclair Lewis, Hemmingway. Tenessee Williams are out, probably many 1st editions. So are many reference books which are being replaced by an online "Who's Who". Libraries such as Baltimore in operation since the 1850's hold thousands of 19th Century books. Montgomery County Maryland has a similar dissoloution program in place.
This raises the question of preservation, particularly of 20th century books. PG needs to relax its restrictions on non renewed copyrights. Furthermore there needs to be some way of preserving texts from 1922 at least up to 1980.

From hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk Wed Jan 3 12:09:22 2007 From: hyphen at hyphenologist.co.uk (Dave Fawthrop) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:09:22 +0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? In-Reply-To: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> References: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: <1nrnp25lcv0q70501rcil8dmgd4qddup18@4ax.com> On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:15:49 -0500, "Norm Wolcott" wrote: |That's what libraries used to be. Not much longer. The Fairfax (VA) library system has adopted a new system of culling books. Due to pressures from new books and patron's desire for cubicles to replace library tables, the space for books has been curtailed. New software spits out the id's of all books not checked out in the last 2 years, and a new list is prepared every 2 weeks. Librarians are issued reminder notices if they are no up to scratch. Books not making the cut are donated to library sales, Friends of the Library, or wherever old books go. This process ensures that almost all 19th and early 20th century books will be disposed of within the coming year. Gibbon, Steinbeck, Sinclair Lewis, Hemmingway. Tenessee Williams are out, probably many 1st editions. So are many reference books which are being replaced by an online "Who's Who". Libraries such as Baltimore in operation since the 1850's hold thousands of 19th Century books. Montgomery County Maryland has a similar |dissoloution program in place. | |This raises the question of preservation, particularly of 20th century books. PG needs to relax its restrictions on non renewed copyrights. Furthermore there needs to be some way of preserving texts from 1922 at least up to 1980. | |nwolcott2 at post.harvard.edu In the UK there is a system which ensures that the last few copies of *anything* are not pulped. The Local Studies Section of the area where they lived, preserves the work of the most obscure long dead authors. The area libraries ensure that this actually happens, and look on this task as a Public Service. I have even found a *lending* copies of such books, which has not been looked at for *years*. BTW what is a "patron*? Are not Libraries in the USA run by the Local Authority, for the Public Good? -- Dave Fawthrop From piggy at netronome.com Wed Jan 3 12:34:35 2007 From: piggy at netronome.com (La Monte Henry Piggy Yarroll) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:34:35 -0500 Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? In-Reply-To: <1nrnp25lcv0q70501rcil8dmgd4qddup18@4ax.com> References: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> <1nrnp25lcv0q70501rcil8dmgd4qddup18@4ax.com> Message-ID: <459C135B.5080504@netronome.com> Dave Fawthrop wrote: > BTW what is a "patron*? Are not Libraries in the USA run by the Local > Authority, for the Public Good? > In the US users of a library and termed "patrons". There is no implication of a fiscal relationship. From nwolcott2ster at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 14:20:21 2007 From: nwolcott2ster at gmail.com (Norm Wolcott) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:20:21 -0500 Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? In-Reply-To: <459C135B.5080504@netronome.com> References: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> <1nrnp25lcv0q70501rcil8dmgd4qddup18@4ax.com> <459C135B.5080504@netronome.com> Message-ID: <4648435f0701031420t3780304dpcce0c22c83d4a8fb@mail.gmail.com> Well Benjamin Franklin founded the first public library, and German immigrants continuted the practice in the 19th century. Yes speciallized libaries exist where more books are preserved, but these are restricted in access. University libraries are not open to the public, even former students. Harvard allows its alumnae 4 visits per year with advance notice. As a retiree doing research I find that pubic libraries are my only freely available source of material. Also I have found that librarians are often overzealous in disposing of reference materials even when shelf space is not needed. My local MD library disposed of the 22 vol Dictionary of National Biography leaving a hole on the shelf. An equally ancient Catholic Encyclopedia of similar size was not touched, probably because of the word "Catholic" in the title. Talking to the librarian,it was apparent she had no knowledge of the significance of the set. It was suggested I use Who's Who on line. Also many authors derived their education from public libraries, so they do have a use other than providing the latest mystery for their "patrons". One thinks of Marx working in the British Museum.I have no objection to intelligent pruning, but wholsale culling of the type I described I find revolting. The National Bureau of Standards had a similar minded libarian once, Workers responded by takiing volumes home and hiding them until she was eventually replaced. I suppose one could steal books from public libraries to preserve them too, perhaps replacing then with a $2 donation to the Friends of the Library who would have otherwise sold them for that amount. The many K12 patrons of the library also need to be reminded of our literary history and not have it cut off at 24 months. Fortunately Thomas Jefferson's library is now in the hands of the Library of Congress who are not likely to surplus it. On 1/3/07, La Monte Henry Piggy Yarroll wrote: > Dave Fawthrop wrote: > > BTW what is a "patron*? Are not Libraries in the USA run by the Local > > Authority, for the Public Good? > > > In the US users of a library and termed "patrons". There is no > implication of a fiscal relationship. > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > -- Norman Wolcott, nwolcott2 at post.harvard.edu From Bowerbird at aol.com Wed Jan 3 14:37:49 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:37:49 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? Message-ID: we need to instill in librarians everywhere -- at every level -- that we can _help_ them with their space problems by digitizing books. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070103/ed387889/attachment.htm From prosfilaes at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 05:02:09 2007 From: prosfilaes at gmail.com (David Starner) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 07:02:09 -0600 Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? In-Reply-To: <4648435f0701031420t3780304dpcce0c22c83d4a8fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> <1nrnp25lcv0q70501rcil8dmgd4qddup18@4ax.com> <459C135B.5080504@netronome.com> <4648435f0701031420t3780304dpcce0c22c83d4a8fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6d99d1fd0701040502s4f721dd3k95172c89e3f5a29c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, Norm Wolcott wrote: > University libraries are not open to the > public, even former students. That's overly broad. That may be Harvard's policy, but the state university libraries I'm familiar with leave their doors open to everyone. As for checking out books, Northwestern Oklahoma State University doesn't permit non-students to check out books*, but Oklahoma State University will give anyone who lives in Oklahoma a library card, University of Nevada Las Vegas will give people a limited library card if they put a credit card on file, and I've heard that the University of Oklahoma charges $75 a year for non-student library cards. (* I suspect that could be changed with some politicking, but it's a pretty small library compared to the others I mention above.) From nwolcott2ster at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 08:07:38 2007 From: nwolcott2ster at gmail.com (Norm Wolcott) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:07:38 -0500 Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? References: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net><1nrnp25lcv0q70501rcil8dmgd4qddup18@4ax.com><459C135B.5080504@netronome.com><4648435f0701031420t3780304dpcce0c22c83d4a8fb@mail.gmail.com> <6d99d1fd0701040502s4f721dd3k95172c89e3f5a29c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004201c73032$f0e0a260$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> Things are obviously better in the wild west! nwolcott2 at post.harvard.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Starner" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? > On 1/3/07, Norm Wolcott wrote: > > University libraries are not open to the > > public, even former students. > > That's overly broad. That may be Harvard's policy, but the state > university libraries I'm familiar with leave their doors open to > everyone. As for checking out books, Northwestern Oklahoma State > University doesn't permit non-students to check out books*, but > Oklahoma State University will give anyone who lives in Oklahoma a > library card, University of Nevada Las Vegas will give people a > limited library card if they put a credit card on file, and I've heard > that the University of Oklahoma charges $75 a year for non-student > library cards. > > (* I suspect that could be changed with some politicking, but it's a > pretty small library compared to the others I mention above.) > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca Thu Jan 4 12:48:48 2007 From: ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca (Wallace J.McLean) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:48:48 -0500 Subject: [gutvol-d] gutvol-d Digest, Vol 30, Issue 4 Message-ID: <9624a3a3.a3a39624@ncf.ca> Norm Wolcott writes: > University libraries are not open to the > public, Is that blanket statement true? I know up here U of T's main library is restricted access, but I've never had any problem getting into any other main university library. My two almae matres both have open stacks... > even former students. And alumni borrowing privileges. (You have to have been a "former student" who actually graduated...) > My local MD > library disposed of the 22 vol Dictionary of National Biography > leaving a hole on the shelf. GACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > I have no objection to intelligent pruning, but > wholsale culling of the type I described I find revolting. Beyond revolting, it's a crime against posterity. On the other hand, I once picked up a VERY rare, though not very old, reference book from a book sale, that had been culled from a library's collection. It rarely shows up on the secondary market, and when it does, it ranges from $300 to $800 US in price, possibly more at times. Not bad for a 1978 imprint. -------------- next part -------------- Today's Topics: 1. Re: Repositories of knowledge? (Dave Fawthrop) 2. Re: Repositories of knowledge? (La Monte Henry Piggy Yarroll) 3. Re: Repositories of knowledge? (Norm Wolcott) 4. Re: Repositories of knowledge? (Bowerbird at aol.com) 5. Re: Repositories of knowledge? (David Starner) 6. Re: Repositories of knowledge? (Norm Wolcott) -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 2631 Url: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070104/17ae5758/attachment.eml -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 990 Url: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070104/17ae5758/attachment-0001.eml -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... 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From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 2119 Url: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070104/17ae5758/attachment-0005.eml -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From bruce at zuhause.org Thu Jan 4 18:06:45 2007 From: bruce at zuhause.org (Bruce Albrecht) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:06:45 -0600 Subject: [gutvol-d] Repositories of knowledge? In-Reply-To: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> References: <001301c72f5a$f7afbc80$640fa8c0@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: <17821.45749.381372.91744@celery.zuhause.org> I can't speak to the motivations or actions of the VA and MD libraries, but libraries in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area belong to a system where there is free inter-library loans (ILL) between the systems, so if there are multiple copies of a books within the various library systems, it's not a great loss if one of the libraries sells some older works out of its stacks in a library book sale (especially if it's not possible to browse the stacks) as long as one or more copies are still available from the system. I'm able to directly check out books from several city or county libraries, but I have to get books from the local colleges and universities through ILL. I could get direct checkout privileges from several of the local colleges and universities for about $75-80 each, but haven't felt it was necessary. I've also been able to scan books from a few special collections at their libraries, too. I've been able to get several Rule-6 clearances through the PG clearance process, I'm not sure why Norm thinks it needs to be relaxed. From ajhaines at shaw.ca Sat Jan 6 13:16:34 2007 From: ajhaines at shaw.ca (Al Haines (shaw)) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:16:34 -0800 Subject: [gutvol-d] Preview submission changes status to Submitted References: <10146387.1166046827120.JavaMail.?@fh1064.dia.cp.net> <20070101235447.GA30905@mail.pglaf.org> Message-ID: <000301c731d7$f20d3530$6401a8c0@ahainesp2400> I just tested this - did a preview submission, logged out, logged back in, and found the book's status still at Cleared (not changed to Submitted, like Preview used to do). I then did a normal submission, logged out and back in again, and found the book's status was now Submitted. Thanks, Greg! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Newby" To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Preview submission changes status to Submitted > On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 09:53:47PM +0000, joshua at hutchinson.net wrote: >> A better question is: >> >> Why doesn't the submitted page show the clearance key? > > Fixed. > >> Especially since many folks have "blanket clearances" that cover a >> whole slew of possible etexts (ie, a blanket clearance that covers a >> multi-year run of a particular magazine). Once it is submitted, if you >> didn't keep the original clearance email, you're in trouble. >> >> We probably need to change the submission page to still show the >> clearance key. >> >> Josh >> >> >----Original Message---- >> >From: ajhaines at shaw.ca >> >Date: Dec 13, 2006 15:25 >> >To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion"> org> >> >Subj: [gutvol-d] Preview submission changes status to Submitted >> > >> >Why does a Preview Submission change a book's status from Cleared to >> >Submitted? > > Fixed. > > Let me know of any continuing anomalies... > -- Greg > >> >I'm asking because I just did a Preview to double-check a book's >> HTML. >> >Because there were a couple of errors, I logged out of PG, fixed the >> errors, >> >and logged back in to do another Preview submission. I found that >> the >> >status had been changed to Submitted, which stalls me until someone >> (Greg?) >> >changes the status back to Cleared. >> > >> >Correct behavior of the upload page should be to leave a book's >> status as >> >Cleared until a final (non-Preview) submission is done. >> > >> >Comments? >> > >> >Al >> >Rainy, windy, generally stormy Victoria (with acknowledgments to >> David >> >Price) >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >gutvol-d mailing list >> >gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org >> >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gutvol-d mailing list >> gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org >> http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d From Bowerbird at aol.com Tue Jan 9 13:19:26 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:19:26 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] revolutionary proofing, part 2 Message-ID: you might remember that on christmas day, i dropped a present on this listserve, a message sharing the results of a test i'd done on a "revolutionary form of proofing", done by comparing results from two sets of o.c.r. those findings were that, contrary to what many people probably would've considered "the general wisdom", (a) o.c.r. programs are _not_ likely to fail in similar ways, (b) nor are they likely to fail on the same places in the text. a second test -- on a book with well over 12,500 nonblank lines -- has confirmed the results of the first experiment, again exhibiting the truly _remarkable_ finding that not a single incorrect line was duplicated exactly in the o.c.r. results from google and the o.c.a. the best o.c.r. is from the o.c.a. -- generated in creating the djvu -- and can be found in the ftp directory for each book at archive.org. although it wasn't as great as in the first test, it was still excellent. again, google's o.c.r. wasn't as good, in head-to-head comparison. but the vital thing is the _independence_ of their o.c.r. errors, because that means that each o.c.r. set can be used as a "check" on the text in the other set. and the _complete_ independence of the errors, as found again, means we can make "perfect" text. so our best strategy is to use _both_ sets of results in tandem, rather than to pick one of 'em as being "better" than the other. also of interest is "the next step" in this new test, where i started to examine the feasibility of making the corrections automatically. it looks like that will be rather straightforward, at least in general. while i will be writing up these new results in detail very soon, i thought i would share the general findings here before then. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070109/1568cf21/attachment.htm From jon at noring.name Fri Jan 12 16:01:28 2007 From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:01:28 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Feedback requested on the Plustek OpticBook 3600 -- alternatives? Message-ID: <1673468111.20070112170128@noring.name> Everyone, I'm now in the market for a book and magazine scanner (and only those types of materials), and I have been intrigued for a while with the Plustek OpticBook 3600 scanner since it is designed for getting distortion-free scans of books without chopping them and running the chopped pages through a sheet feed scanner. Most here have heard of this scanner, but for those who have not, some background info: http://www.plustek.com/product/book3600.asp Some items of interest I'd like to know about this scanner: 1) Quality of the page scans (such as at 600 dpi) 2) Overall quality of the hardware 3) How deep into the gutter it will scan 4) Any quirks or limitations of the device Also, does any other manufacturer offer a similar type of scanner? (Yes, I am aware of the camera-based book scanners, but at the present I'm only interested in flat-bed types.) Thanks. Jon Noring From ajhaines at shaw.ca Fri Jan 12 17:38:24 2007 From: ajhaines at shaw.ca (Al Haines (shaw)) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:38:24 -0800 Subject: [gutvol-d] Feedback requested on the Plustek OpticBook 3600 --alternatives? References: <1673468111.20070112170128@noring.name> Message-ID: <000301c736b3$83e83e70$6401a8c0@ahainesp2400> Hi, Jon - I bought a Plustek 3600 in March 2006. Since then, I've scanned about 135 books. I estimate that that's just over 20,000 scans. Most of the books were scanned in what I'll call "flat-bed" mode - two pages per scan. I had to scan two of the books in "book mode" - one page per scan - because of their thickness and the stiffness of their binding. My two cents worth on your questions: 1. I do all my scanning to 300dpi gray-scale JPG's. If a book has fairly clean paper (no stains, creases, wear and tear marks, etc) and good typesetting quality, OCR quality is excellent. (I use Abbyy Finereader Sprint 4.0, for reasons too complicated to go into here.) I've found that when scanning to higher DPI, printing imperfections tend to get turned into phantom commas, periods, etc. 2. Hardware quality - excellent. 3. Distance into gutter - in my experience, this depends on how stiff the book's binding is, but with the above-mentioned two books, both quite stiff, it was about 3/8"-1/2" With a less-stiff book, that distance will be less. Any less stiff, and you might as well use the scanner in flat-bed mode. 4. Quirks/limitations - I've encountered only a couple of minor annoyances. In no particular order: 4.1. The scanner software allows you to put the scan job file in a different folder than the actual scans. Since I always want the scan job file and the scans to be in the same folder, it's a nuisance to have to set the software's two file location fields to the same location, especially so since you can't cut/paste from one field to another. You have to manually navigate to the same location, twice. In addition, each of the two file navigation fields use a different style of folder navigation - one uses a standard Windows dialog box style, the other uses a web browser style. 4.2. If the scanner is in warm-up mode, you have to wait until it's done so before you can do *anything* with your computer. All system activity is frozen until the scanner signals that it's warmed up, which can take something like 15-30 seconds (which sometimes feels like forever). 4.3. The glass area is about 9 3/4" x 12", so whether that's a limitation depends on what you're scanning. It's hasn't been a limitation to me. Some other general comments: The software that comes with the scanner works very well. Depending on whether you're scanning in flat-bed mode or in book mode, the software will rotate the scan images so that images are all right-side up. Images can be JPG, TIFF, and others I can't remember offhand because I've never used them. Images are sequentially numbered from 1 (left-padded with four or five zeroes), with a default prefix of "Image", e.g. "Image0001.jpg". (As someone who cut his computer teeth on MS-DOS's 8.3 file name limitations (and Radio Shack's TRS-DOS before that), I always change the prefix to just "I".) Once you get the software set up to do a book, you can scan the entire book without touching your computer keyboard. All scanning can be done with the scanner's control panel buttons. You only need to use the host computer to set up a scan job, then to direct the software into OCR mode. If a scan job has to be interrupted, it can be picked where you left off. The scanning software retains in its MRU (most recently used) list the last 4-5 scan jobs names/locations, allowing you to jump between multiple books. Not sure why you might want to do this, but the feature is there. That's all I can think of for now. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Noring" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [gutvol-d] Feedback requested on the Plustek OpticBook 3600 --alternatives? > Everyone, > > I'm now in the market for a book and magazine scanner (and only those > types of materials), and I have been intrigued for a while with the > Plustek OpticBook 3600 scanner since it is designed for getting > distortion-free scans of books without chopping them and running the > chopped pages through a sheet feed scanner. > > Most here have heard of this scanner, but for those who have not, some > background info: > > http://www.plustek.com/product/book3600.asp > > > Some items of interest I'd like to know about this scanner: > > 1) Quality of the page scans (such as at 600 dpi) > > 2) Overall quality of the hardware > > 3) How deep into the gutter it will scan > > 4) Any quirks or limitations of the device > > Also, does any other manufacturer offer a similar type of scanner? > > (Yes, I am aware of the camera-based book scanners, but at the present > I'm only interested in flat-bed types.) > > Thanks. > > Jon Noring > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From mkengel at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 07:04:38 2007 From: mkengel at gmail.com (Michael Engel) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:04:38 +0900 Subject: [gutvol-d] Chinese-English dictionary Message-ID: Hello. There is a Chinese dictionary which is available as pdf file, > 1300 pages, >50MB. Copyright is cleared. The problem is that it needs a lot of volunteers to read and digitize. I remember hearing that there is a service where the pdf/png/?? is shown and several people can work on one text file which is also online. Unfortunately I forgot the name of that website ? Is that software which is freely available ? Thank you for your information. Michael Engel Team Leader The Free Chinese-German Dictionary HanDeDict http://chdw.de From mkengel at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 07:35:02 2007 From: mkengel at gmail.com (Michael Engel) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:35:02 +0900 Subject: [gutvol-d] Chinese-English dictionary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, I have got the address of the Distributed Proofreaders. Thank you. Michael Engel From mlockey at magma.ca Sat Jan 13 18:01:59 2007 From: mlockey at magma.ca (Michael Lockey) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:01:59 -0500 Subject: [gutvol-d] Chinese-English dictionary Message-ID: <200701140202.l0E226xj020449@mail2.magma.ca> Sounds like you might be referring to the happy mob at Distributed Proofreaders. I'm sure (as a member of both) that either of their sites would happy to oblige. One potential problem might be in the language: HYPERLINK "http://www.pgdp.net/"DP-INT (the main site) is ASCII; HYPERLINK "http://www.rastko.net/dp"DP-EU handles a broader range, out to Urdhu; neither can currently handle Chinese (though we're interested...!) DP-50 will be the newest site, soon to be opened in Canada, to take advantage of copyright laws. As we are quite multicultural here, and the site is not finalized, we might be able and willing to perform necessary modifications to allow easier processing. You can contact me at HYPERLINK "mailto:mlockey at magma.ca"mlockey at magma.ca. Contact JulietS at INT; or zstefanovic at EU. There is a Chinese dictionary which is available as pdf file, > 1300 pages, >50MB. Copyright is cleared. The problem is that it needs a lot of volunteers to read and digitize. I remember hearing that there is a service where the pdf/png/?? is shown and several people can work on one text file which is also online. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date: 1/12/2007 2:04 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070113/5cc583fc/attachment.htm From sly at victoria.tc.ca Sun Jan 14 10:36:15 2007 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:36:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] Science Fiction novella about digitizing books Message-ID: In reading through a stack of old issues of _Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine_, I ran across a story called "Realtime" by Daniel Keys Moran and Gladys Prebehalla. (In IASFM, August 1984). Usually, I don't like "computers that become sentient" stories. However, as a PG volunteer, I found this one hard to resist because a big part of the plot involves digitizing old books, and the importance of preserving stories. It is set in a future time when books have long since ceased to be printed, and are generally veiwed as only curious collector's items of interest to the older generation. Here is a short excerpt from a conversation between Maggie (an old woman) and her new Praxcelis (a type of personal computer). [Maggie] smiled, a smile of pure joy. "Can you ... reproduce bigger things?" "That would depend upon the size of the object to be copied." "A book?" Maggie wondered if Praxcelis hesitated; "What is a book?" Maggie got up abruptly, went into her study, and returned with her copy of _The Arabian Nights_. She placed the book, still closed, on the scanning platform. There was a brief humming noise. Praxcelis said, "I am capable of reproducing this object to five nines of significant detail. [...] It seems clear that this book is in sub-standard condition. You should be aware that in my reproduction I can restore this book to approximately its original condition." "You can...." Maggie swallowed. Her throat seemed suddenly very dry. "You can make new books?" Then later in the novella, the stories (including The Wizard of Oz, The Three Musketeers, Robin Hood, The Lord of the Rings, Cinderella) begin to take on a life of their own as they are passed around the "dataweb" in an effort to "bring stories back to the world." Despite efforts of officials from "DataWeb Security" the Praxcelis machines adopt characters from these stories and begin to act independantly, which changes the nature of the society. And it was all instigated by a stubborn great-grandmother who liked to read books, who is in turn mythologized by future generations... Andrew From hiddengreen at gmail.com Sun Jan 14 11:11:31 2007 From: hiddengreen at gmail.com (Cori) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:11:31 +0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Science Fiction novella about digitizing books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <910fee4a0701141111w72855301vc71d399c733b5289@mail.gmail.com> On 14/01/07, Andrew Sly wrote: > > In reading through a stack of old issues of _Isaac Asimov's > Science Fiction Magazine_, I ran across a story called > "Realtime" by Daniel Keys Moran and Gladys Prebehalla. > (In IASFM, August 1984). Reading copy available here: http://www.kithrup.com/dkm/dkmfic/realtime.html "I, Daniel Keys Moran, "The Author," hereby release this text as freeware. It may be transmitted as a text file anywhere in this or any other dimension, without reservation, so long as the story text is not altered IN ANY WAY." Cori -- To Posterity - and Beyond! From bruce at zuhause.org Mon Jan 15 06:16:46 2007 From: bruce at zuhause.org (Bruce Albrecht) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:16:46 -0600 Subject: [gutvol-d] Feedback requested on the Plustek OpticBook 3600 -- alternatives? In-Reply-To: <1673468111.20070112170128@noring.name> References: <1673468111.20070112170128@noring.name> Message-ID: <17835.36046.23772.408105@celery.zuhause.org> Jon Noring writes: > Everyone, > > I'm now in the market for a book and magazine scanner (and only those > types of materials), and I have been intrigued for a while with the > Plustek OpticBook 3600 scanner since it is designed for getting > distortion-free scans of books without chopping them and running the > chopped pages through a sheet feed scanner. Jon, aren't you registered at Distributed Proofreaders? There's a thread on the 3600 in the Providing Content forum there. From ricardofdiogo at gmail.com Wed Jan 17 14:33:31 2007 From: ricardofdiogo at gmail.com (Ricardo F Diogo) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:33:31 +0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] PG banner in other languages Message-ID: <9c6138c50701171433k3e794086y337ef0a55eefa5bc@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone volunteer to make PG's banners in Portuguese if I provide the translation? Ricardo From halsey1 at frontiernet.net Wed Jan 17 20:19:01 2007 From: halsey1 at frontiernet.net (Dick Halsey) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:19:01 -0500 Subject: [gutvol-d] on-line Gutcheck In-Reply-To: <9c6138c50701171433k3e794086y337ef0a55eefa5bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000c01c73ab7$cbef1ce0$f2226546@Lydia> I can run Gutcheck in a DOS window on my home PC. When I was ready to submit my last book, I found that Gutcheck on-line (at http://upload.pglaf.org/gutcheck.php) for some reason found errors that running on my PC did not find. I have been trying to run the on-line version again on my next book and I don't get any results at all. So I tried other files and didn't get any results. Any suggestions as to who can fix the on-line version? Dick From gbnewby at pglaf.org Wed Jan 17 23:59:54 2007 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:59:54 -0800 Subject: [gutvol-d] on-line Gutcheck In-Reply-To: <000c01c73ab7$cbef1ce0$f2226546@Lydia> References: <9c6138c50701171433k3e794086y337ef0a55eefa5bc@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c73ab7$cbef1ce0$f2226546@Lydia> Message-ID: <20070118075954.GA32114@mail.pglaf.org> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 11:19:01PM -0500, Dick Halsey wrote: > I can run Gutcheck in a DOS window on my home PC. When I was > ready to submit my last book, I found that Gutcheck on-line (at > http://upload.pglaf.org/gutcheck.php) for some reason found errors that > running on my PC did not find. I have been trying to run the on-line > version again on my next book and I don't get any results at all. So I > tried other files and didn't get any results. Any suggestions as to who > can fix the on-line version? > > Dick I'm the guy you're looking for.... I'll try to check this out on Thursday. Chances are it hasn't been running for awhile, but should be easy to fix. The online version is not quite the same as the one you can get from Sourceforge (it's a little older, not necessarily better). -- Greg From gbnewby at pglaf.org Mon Jan 22 11:42:00 2007 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:42:00 -0800 Subject: [gutvol-d] Small tweak to Web site Message-ID: <20070122194200.GA17713@mail.pglaf.org> I tried moving the Top 100 downloads link right to the top of the main page. That might give us some better visibility to get "buzz" about our top items. Another suggestion, for Marcello to look at, is to change the "Read online" link in the bibrec page to be more descriptive. How about, "View this book one page at a time" I'm still working on further ideas for making "community" around our collection... discussion boards, personal bookshelves, etc. -- Greg From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Mon Jan 22 20:49:32 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 05:49:32 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] Small tweak to Web site In-Reply-To: <20070122194200.GA17713@mail.pglaf.org> References: <20070122194200.GA17713@mail.pglaf.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:42:00 -0800, you wrote: >I tried moving the Top 100 downloads link right to the >top of the main page. That might give us some better >visibility to get "buzz" about our top items. > >Another suggestion, for Marcello to look at, is to >change the "Read online" link in the bibrec page to >be more descriptive. How about, > "View this book one page at a time" > >I'm still working on further ideas for making "community" >around our collection... discussion boards, personal >bookshelves, etc. > -- Greg We (mainly Marcello, Ricdogio an me) are currently designing a completely new main page. We have created a sandbox-page to post our ideas. We will soon enough leak some improvements to the main page. I for example want a top bar like the tip on the Catalog page. http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/main-page-sandbox and http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page/main-page-sandbox BTW eBook or ebook on Main Page? -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org From gbnewby at pglaf.org Mon Jan 22 22:23:20 2007 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:23:20 -0800 Subject: [gutvol-d] Small tweak to Web site In-Reply-To: References: <20070122194200.GA17713@mail.pglaf.org> Message-ID: <20070123062320.GA27302@mail.pglaf.org> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 05:49:32AM +0100, Robert Marquardt wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:42:00 -0800, you wrote: > > >I tried moving the Top 100 downloads link right to the > >top of the main page. That might give us some better > >visibility to get "buzz" about our top items. > > > >Another suggestion, for Marcello to look at, is to > >change the "Read online" link in the bibrec page to > >be more descriptive. How about, > > "View this book one page at a time" > > > >I'm still working on further ideas for making "community" > >around our collection... discussion boards, personal > >bookshelves, etc. > > -- Greg > > We (mainly Marcello, Ricdogio an me) are currently designing a completely new main page. > We have created a sandbox-page to post our ideas. > We will soon enough leak some improvements to the main page. > I for example want a top bar like the tip on the Catalog page. > > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/main-page-sandbox > and > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page/main-page-sandbox Nice! > BTW eBook or ebook on Main Page? We've been using "eBook" mostly. -- Greg From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Jan 22 23:24:37 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 02:24:37 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] Small tweak to Web site Message-ID: > Robert Marquardt robert also did a very nice bookshelf page for historical fiction recently, harvesting an equivalent page from the distributed proofreaders wiki... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070123/d70f35e3/attachment.htm From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Tue Jan 23 02:19:46 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:19:46 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] Small tweak to Web site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070123101946.195410@gmx.net> > robert also did a very nice bookshelf page for historical fiction > recently, > harvesting an equivalent page from the distributed proofreaders wiki... > > -bowerbird That one still needs much work. The DP wiki offers other lists as well. Expect a piracy career! :-) Mobipocket has also some categories for their free downloads (mostly if not all PG books). Maybe we should ask them to donate the books to PG. It is an undocumented proprietary format though. -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Jan 25 01:00:21 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:00:21 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: i just can't wait to see how google's page-scans will look on an iphone. will they fit? be readable? a hundred thousand books, right in your pocket. and the web too, just in case you get too bored... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070125/75f9389d/attachment.htm From hart at pglaf.org Thu Jan 25 14:30:06 2007 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Bowerbird at aol.com wrote: > i just can't wait to see how google's page-scans > will look on an iphone. will they fit? be readable? No, you won't be able to tead them without a zoom such as they used with the LG eNV, which is WAYYY smaller than it appears on TV. . .do they HIRE MIDGETS as spokesmodels??? > > a hundred thousand books, right in your pocket. > and the web too, just in case you get too bored... I just bought a few dozen 1G RAMsticks cheap enough to give away if I really wanted to. . . . At 100K per book, that's 100,000 on each one of them, and I can just plug in a copy to nearly any computer. iPhones seem to have no ports. . . . From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Jan 25 16:43:03 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:43:03 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: michael said: > I just bought a few dozen 1G RAMsticks > cheap enough to give away if I really wanted to. . . . > At 100K per book, that's 100,000 on each one of them, > and I can just plug in a copy to nearly any computer. yippee! :+) -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070125/662c4b60/attachment.htm From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Thu Jan 25 20:31:29 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:31:29 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5q0jr2dqsgn83u3mdd20f5tqp9iojm7opu@4ax.com> On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:06 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >At 100K per book, that's 100,000 on each one of them, >and I can just plug in a copy to nearly any computer. Much less, because you should use as many HTML versions as possible which are 300K to 1 MB. I think about creating a Science Fiction CD, ie the books from the SF Bookshelf with a version of the bookshelf page as navigation. -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Jan 25 23:06:48 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:06:48 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: robert said: > Much less, because you should use > as many HTML versions as possible > which are 300K to 1 MB. we haven't danced around this circle in a while. but i don't really feel like it right now anyway... so i'll just say "html is one choice", and leave it at that. besides, i think what robert is _really_ saying is that he wants the _pictures_ included too, not necessarily .html per se, and there's some value within that stance. and michael might even agree, to a point, anyway. but it's gonna take terrabyte thumbdrives, i presume, before the number of stored books is high enough that michael feels the luxury of including _all_ the pictures... until then, every picture is displacing a thousand words, and i'm with michael that that tradeoff just isn't worth it. especially when -- if they really desire those pictures for any particular book -- people can just go to the web and download 'em. for most people, for most books, the _book_ itself is the string of words, the pictures were often just fluff. pleasant to look at, certainly, and typically informative as well, and a must-include when we have the space to accommodate, but not until... however, michael predicts terrabyte thumbdrives _very_ soon... what was it, 2010? -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070126/3f1ef84c/attachment.htm From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Thu Jan 25 23:24:28 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:24:28 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> > besides, i think what robert is _really_ saying is that > he wants the _pictures_ included too, not necessarily > .html per se, and there's some value within that stance. The thumbdrives are promotional so they should show the best looking versions of the books or all available versions of the books. -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From traverso at dm.unipi.it Fri Jan 26 02:38:44 2007 From: traverso at dm.unipi.it (Carlo Traverso) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:38:44 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> (robert_marquardt@gmx.de) References: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200701261038.l0QAciB32435@pico.dm.unipi.it> In any case there are very few books that fit in 100K as txt, 300K to 600K is a more reasonable size, and an imageless HTML is very little more space, no more than 1% usually. But 2000 books vs. 10000 is not a substantial difference, much more that what you can read in one year anyway. One could save space with zips, but including zips in give-away sticks would increase the likelihood that the books are never read, just erased as junk to reuse the stick. An index.html in the stick with a simple table of contents would be instead loaded automatically, and might catch the interest. CDs are different, you cannot erase the content, so you might put it asaide and forget it, then come back to it later. Carlo Traverso From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Fri Jan 26 09:45:19 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:45:19 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: <200701261038.l0QAciB32435@pico.dm.unipi.it> References: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> <200701261038.l0QAciB32435@pico.dm.unipi.it> Message-ID: <62fkr2pcqo9n1nt5crhvr3u70um6v6lulv@4ax.com> On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:38:44 +0100, you wrote: >One could save space with zips, but including zips in give-away sticks >would increase the likelihood that the books are never read, just >erased as junk to reuse the stick. An index.html in the stick with a >simple table of contents would be instead loaded automatically, and >might catch the interest. CDs are different, you cannot erase the >content, so you might put it asaide and forget it, then come back to >it later. This is what i think about for creating a SF collection. The Bookshelf page can be reworked to serve as index page. Any browser can display text files adequately and almost no computer without browser so the stick can be read almost everywhere. Maybe i will even boost the text files to HTML. What i now need is someone who can write some JavaScript to store the current reading position for each book on the stick. with that the most important reader function is implemented. The HTML books from Baen do something like that by storing it in a cookie. Unfortunately such a cookie is not stored on the stick. Maybe adding a browser which can run from the stick would be an idea. -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org From hart at pglaf.org Fri Jan 26 10:02:56 2007 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:02:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] !@!Re: RAMsticks google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: <62fkr2pcqo9n1nt5crhvr3u70um6v6lulv@4ax.com> References: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> <200701261038.l0QAciB32435@pico.dm.unipi.it> <62fkr2pcqo9n1nt5crhvr3u70um6v6lulv@4ax.com> Message-ID: I should remind you that RAMsticks are nearly as cheap as floppy disks were when each new format came out, and that they can be protected via various methods from being erased, though there are certainly hackers, and others, who can get around this, though not as easily as floppies. Each floppy format started out at about $10 per disk. You can get 32 meg RAMsticks at Target for only $5. I thought 3 one gig RAMstick packs at Staples for $40 was far better, but only if you want more storage, of course. Obviously Staples buys them for much less, and I would be very happy to go in with anyone who found such an OEM supplier. Along these lines, I would love to see some ISOs and suggestions for how to best use the more common sizes of RAMsticks. If you make such a file, I would be only too glad to put it on these RAMsticks I just bought from Staples and hand them out, both via the copying process and just handing out the RAMsticks. Given inflation, handing out these RAMsticks is no more an expensive proposition than handing out any of the floppy disks when brand new. Please email me directly, as well as to the list. Thanks!!! Give the world eBooks in 2007!!! Michael S. Hart Founder Project Gutenberg Blog at http://hart.pglaf.org On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Robert Marquardt wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:38:44 +0100, you wrote: > >> One could save space with zips, but including zips in give-away sticks >> would increase the likelihood that the books are never read, just >> erased as junk to reuse the stick. An index.html in the stick with a >> simple table of contents would be instead loaded automatically, and >> might catch the interest. CDs are different, you cannot erase the >> content, so you might put it asaide and forget it, then come back to >> it later. > > This is what i think about for creating a SF collection. The Bookshelf page can be reworked to serve as index page. > Any browser can display text files adequately and almost no computer without browser so the stick can be read almost > everywhere. Maybe i will even boost the text files to HTML. > What i now need is someone who can write some JavaScript to store the current reading position for each book on the > stick. with that the most important reader function is implemented. > The HTML books from Baen do something like that by storing it in a cookie. Unfortunately such a cookie is not stored on > the stick. Maybe adding a browser which can run from the stick would be an idea. > -- > Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From hart at pglaf.org Fri Jan 26 10:13:20 2007 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:13:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> References: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> Message-ID: I certainly wouldn't mind including both illustrated and text editions. mh On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Robert Marquardt wrote: >> besides, i think what robert is _really_ saying is that >> he wants the _pictures_ included too, not necessarily >> .html per se, and there's some value within that stance. > > The thumbdrives are promotional so they should show the best looking versions of the books or all available versions of the books. > -- > Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org > > Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! > Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Jan 26 11:45:41 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:45:41 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: robert said: > The thumbdrives are promotional > so they should show the best looking versions of the books > or all available versions of the books. ok. so you define the .html versions as the "best-looking" ones. i can see why you would think that. i can also see that it might not stay true forever. or even until next year. i might also try to extend your horizon beyond "best-looking" to include things like "highest e-book functionality", maybe, or "most tightly integrated library", or a multitude of other values. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070126/54485c4f/attachment.htm From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Jan 26 15:10:00 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:10:00 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: michael said: > No, you won't be able to read them without a zoom i'm not sure you can say that for sure, can you? and i'd like to know for sure. what is intriguing is that: 1. apple has increased the screen to the whole machine. 2. that screen is coming it at a not-too-terrible 160dpi. 3. the thing adjusts orientation, and works in landscape. 4. it has web connectivity, and is even said to run safari. so it seems to me that it will indeed display google scans. although you will have to scroll down to see the bottom, you will not have to pan left-and-right to show the text. so the real question is whether the size will be readable... i'm sure that for some of the young and sharp-eyed, it will. i'm equally sure us oldsters will have to hold it _very_ close, and even then it might not be readable. it's worth noting that the nokia770, a very similar machine out there today in terms of form-factor, is reported to have a screen that is quite readable. at any rate, even if google scans will not be able to be read, it's a certainty that we can squirt text and graphics to people that they'll be able to resize to their heart's content to read... so i take the iphone to be that long-awaited convergence of the phone and the pda, and just might prove to be important. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070126/e331c529/attachment.htm From hart at pglaf.org Fri Jan 26 19:10:01 2007 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:10:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Bowerbird at aol.com wrote: > michael said: >> No, you won't be able to read them without a zoom > > i'm not sure you can say that for sure, can you? > > and i'd like to know for sure. The specs are on display for anyone to see, and I've seen highway maps that are just barely legible, perhaps only I can read them well, because I used to live were they made the display point to. There is a serious limit as to what you can do with these graphics on a 3 inch screen, and a complete page scan for normal books wouldn't make it, though you obviously could do pan and scan reading, with any size screen. The questions is, would you, or would many people? > > what is intriguing is that: > 1. apple has increased the screen to the whole machine. > 2. that screen is coming it at a not-too-terrible 160dpi. > 3. the thing adjusts orientation, and works in landscape. > 4. it has web connectivity, and is even said to run safari. > > so it seems to me that it will indeed display google scans. It does do Google stuff, but not well enough for book reading. > > although you will have to scroll down to see the bottom, > you will not have to pan left-and-right to show the text. I think you will have to do both to get something legible. > > so the real question is whether the size will be readable... > > i'm sure that for some of the young and sharp-eyed, it will. Depends all too much on the font, scan resolution, contrast, and all the variables we've been considering for years. > > i'm equally sure us oldsters will have to hold it _very_ close, > and even then it might not be readable. > > it's worth noting that the nokia770, a very similar machine > out there today in terms of form-factor, is reported to have > a screen that is quite readable. Have you got the specs for the 770, I thot is was larger. > > at any rate, even if google scans will not be able to be read, > it's a certainty that we can squirt text and graphics to people > that they'll be able to resize to their heart's content to read... Pan and scan. . . . Will never make it for the general public. > > so i take the iphone to be that long-awaited convergence of > the phone and the pda, and just might prove to be important. I think it will be, too, but better for ASCII than scan texts. > > -bowerbird > Michael From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Fri Jan 26 20:59:10 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:59:10 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:13:20 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >I certainly wouldn't mind including both illustrated and text editions. I currently download the SF books. I will report tomorrow how big that is. Keep in mind that you cannot fill the stick completely or the user will have to delete books too soon. No mor than 50 percent would be my guess and stored in a subdirectory so it does not clutter the root directory. -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Jan 26 21:48:07 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:48:07 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: michael said: > though you obviously could do > pan and scan reading, with any size screen. > The questions is, would you, or would many people? no, of course no one will put up with panning... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070127/16fd0cbf/attachment.htm From ricardofdiogo at gmail.com Sun Jan 28 05:24:16 2007 From: ricardofdiogo at gmail.com (Ricardo F Diogo) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:24:16 +0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Language Stats Message-ID: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> Could we generate live stats/charts with the number of etexts by language? I'd like to have a clearer view on the relative progress of each language throughout the weeks. I suppose there's probably a way of auto-collecting these data from the database and generate something like http://www.gutenberg.org/w/images/0/05/Pt_graf_obras_ano.gif with all the languages in it. An historical chart with the 35 years of History would also be nice but I'd like to see, every week, how far is a language from the next one in the ranking. Ricardo From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Sun Jan 28 06:11:58 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:11:58 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] Language Stats In-Reply-To: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:24:16 +0000, you wrote: >Could we generate live stats/charts with the number of etexts by language? >I'd like to have a clearer view on the relative progress of each >language throughout the weeks. I suppose there's probably a way of >auto-collecting these data from the database and generate something >like http://www.gutenberg.org/w/images/0/05/Pt_graf_obras_ano.gif with >all the languages in it. >An historical chart with the 35 years of History would also be nice >but I'd like to see, every week, how far is a language from the next >one in the ranking. I see no technical problem. The Online Catalog already shows that the numbers are there. A script to add this data to a CSV file should provide the history needed for the chart. From there a tool like gnuplot can generate the images. The Plucker generator shows that PG is allowed to run programs on the server. This could also augment the Top Downloads page. For the main page we could also create a "Reader's Choice" box showing the top download book of the day or week. -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org From marcello at perathoner.de Sun Jan 28 13:13:51 2007 From: marcello at perathoner.de (Marcello Perathoner) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:13:51 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] Language Stats In-Reply-To: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45BD120F.4050105@perathoner.de> Ricardo F Diogo wrote: > Could we generate live stats/charts with the number of etexts by language? Hover your mouse over the language links in http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/ and read the count in the tooltip. > An historical chart with the 35 years of History would also be nice Due to the way PG kept the release dates before #10,000 we cannot produce such a graph. We could for later books. Download data is kept for the last 30 days. We now have top 100 by language (experimental) Try: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/scores/top-pt -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster at gutenberg.org From ricardofdiogo at gmail.com Sun Jan 28 13:47:52 2007 From: ricardofdiogo at gmail.com (Ricardo F Diogo) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:47:52 +0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Language Stats In-Reply-To: <45BD120F.4050105@perathoner.de> References: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> <45BD120F.4050105@perathoner.de> Message-ID: <9c6138c50701281347v5eb239ddq190fb4e81e0c9d@mail.gmail.com> 2007/1/28, Marcello Perathoner : > Hover your mouse over the language links in > > http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/ > > and read the count in the tooltip. I know that. I was asking if we can automatically generate a chart with all the languages + the number of posted ebooks for each language + update it weekly. Instead of hovering all the languages, we would see a graphic with all that info so that the progresses were more clear. > We now have top 100 by language (experimental) > > Try: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/scores/top-pt > > Didn't know that one. It looks nice indeed. But I'm interested in the number of posted ebooks per language, not the number of downloads. Ricardo From Bowerbird at aol.com Sun Jan 28 14:49:46 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:49:46 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] greasing the skids to make the corporate accountants drool Message-ID: you gotta read this: > http://blogs.lib.berkeley.edu/blogs/shimenawa.php/2007/01/25/google_books_and_ebooks peter brantley said: > it would be far more efficient for publishers to > transmit native XML files to Google for ingest. oh really? i don't think so. show me some examples of these x.m.l. files -- real files of real books from real publishers -- and i'll show you why the time and trouble of "ingesting" them will cause far more indigestion than grabbing" just the words" from the o.c.r. never mind the fact that brantley recognizes that "not many" publishers actually do "full-bore" x.m.l., not yet anyway, and even admits that the ones that _do_ are mostly the "very large" ones -- apparently he doesn't buy the position that cyberspace should help "level the playing field" for smaller publishers -- what he's concentrating on is that an x.m.l. approach > permits publishers to develop sophisticated, tiered > licensing regimes for digital books to libraries and > other consumers. even the dense recording companies are reportedly now starting to consider dropping the d.r.m. entirely, as customers would rather "steal" and "deal" with d.r.m. > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/23/technology/23music.html?ex=1327208400& en=bf7173ca00417250&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss but now brantley wants us to voluntarily padlock _books_? um, no, peter, that's not a good idea. and, as if that little jewel wasn't enough, he goes on: > Libraries will have to start thinking about how they > are going to handle collections management of > digital works for which they may only have licensed, > and not permanent, access.? whoa! brantley wants _libraries_ to grease the skids for the pay-per-view model that makes corporate accounts drool? libraries should be _the_ societal force _fighting_ that model! this is exactly what michael hart has warned us about, all along. what's most scary about the whole scenario is that brantley is the new executive director for the "digital library federation". no, i don't know exactly what that is either, but i do know that it's never a good idea to put a fox in a hen-house... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070128/835b037b/attachment.htm From lee at novomail.net Mon Jan 29 10:10:48 2007 From: lee at novomail.net (Lee Passey) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:10:48 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BE38A8.5000706@novomail.net> Michael Hart wrote: > I just bought a few dozen 1G RAMsticks cheap enough to > give away if I really wanted to. . . . Just out of curiosity, exactly what do you mean when you say "RAMstick?" When I Google the word, I get any number of definitions, but the most common usage is for the dynamic RAM installed inside a computer (SIMM, DIMM, etc.) Apparently, when you use the word you are talking about some sort of persistent, static RAM. Static RAM now comes in many forms. Probably the most common is static RAM packaged with an integrated USB interface variously known as USB Flash drives or USB Thumb drives. These devices are known as "drives," because when plugged in to a computer they appear to the operating system as a disk drive, despite the fact that they are solid state devices. There are, of course, several other common types of static RAM, including Compact Flash, Multimedia/Secure Digital Card, SmartMedia Card, and Sony's proprietary Memory Stick. While these non-USB devices can appear to a computer as a disk drive (if the appropriate card reader is installed), they can also be used as system memory in some devices such as PDAs (including cell phone enabled PDAs) and digital cameras. When you first started talking about "RAMsticks" I thought maybe you were talking about the Sony Memory Stick, but seeing as how the Memory Stick is undoubtedly the least commonly used of all the static RAM devices (used almost exclusively by Sony products) I think that is unlikely. Putting e-books on static RAM devices that plug directly into a handheld device is a pretty cool idea. If you could put 100 e-books onto a Compact Flash card that plugs directly into my iPaq, then I could start reading without having to do any syncing or copying. (My impression is that the Secure Digital card is probably the most ubiquitous now, but I have old hardware). On the other hand, if what you're talking about is a USB Flash drive, then the idea is not so cool. I'm not aware of any handheld device that can connect to a USB storage device directly, and I would bet that larger computers that /do/ have USB interfaces also have CD-ROM drives. The Flash drive form factor may have a /slight/ advantage, but you will still require a larger computer for reading or copying to a more convenient device. The biggest advantage to a Flash drive is that it is small enough to fit in my pocket, and it is writable, making it possible for me to carry my data with me and access it on foreign computers (by "foreign" I mean computers which I do not own -- like those in public libraries). It is unlikely that I would want to edit the e-books on my Flash drive or carry them around with me on a device that is /not/ a reading device, so I fail to see much advantage to USB Flash drives over CDs-ROM. But then, maybe you're not talking about USB drives at all. So, just what do you mean when you say "RAMstick?" -- Nothing of significance below this line. From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Jan 29 11:59:49 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:59:49 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: michael- i know you love to give away books. in the past, you handed out floppies, even way back when they 5.25-inches and literally "floppy"... then you handed out the smaller harder diskettes. and then cd-roms. i remember being at the library in berkeley at the time of the 10,000th e-text party, where you had dozens and dozens of cd's to give out. now, you're handing them out on "ramsticks", which most of us understood perfectly well as "thumbdrives". anyway, i thought you'd like to know that i heard a commercial today that one of the big-box stores -- like circuit city or best buy, i forget which one -- is putting 1-gig thumbdrives on sale -- 3 for $30 -- when they do their vista debut sometime kinda soon, so i thought you'd want to know to look out for that... odds are if they're doing it here in l.a., they are also doing it in your neck of the woods, so scoop 'em up. (and yeah, yeah, i know that now michael is gonna respond how he gets _his_ for $7 each, as the regular price, but hey, then i'll be as well-informed as the bargain-hunter himself.) -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070129/d3df8dc0/attachment.htm From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Jan 29 12:04:08 2007 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:04:08 EST Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone Message-ID: getting back to the actual topic of this thread... while surfing recently, i came across the info that the nokia770 has a screen-resolution of 225dpi, significantly higher than the 160dpi of the iphone, so there's a good chance that the iphone will _not_ be able to deliver a readable screen 500 pixels wide, which is what i figure you'd need for google's scans. but i guess i'll have to actually _look_ at one to know for sure whether it will be readable for _me_ or not... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/gutvol-d/attachments/20070129/98b8f6ca/attachment.htm From hart at pglaf.org Mon Jan 29 20:47:51 2007 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:47:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To All! I /think/ the place you are thinking of is Staples, 3 for $39.95 and I /think/ the deal is already over, but only by a couple days. However, any time you see such deals, or make deals with OEMS for something like 100 of these, let me know!!! Thanks! Michael On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Bowerbird at aol.com wrote: > michael- > > i know you love to give away books. > > in the past, you handed out floppies, even way > back when they 5.25-inches and literally "floppy"... > > then you handed out the smaller harder diskettes. > > and then cd-roms. i remember being at the library > in berkeley at the time of the 10,000th e-text party, > where you had dozens and dozens of cd's to give out. > > now, you're handing them out on "ramsticks", which > most of us understood perfectly well as "thumbdrives". > > anyway, i thought you'd like to know that i heard a > commercial today that one of the big-box stores > -- like circuit city or best buy, i forget which one -- > is putting 1-gig thumbdrives on sale -- 3 for $30 -- > when they do their vista debut sometime kinda soon, > so i thought you'd want to know to look out for that... > odds are if they're doing it here in l.a., they are also > doing it in your neck of the woods, so scoop 'em up. > > (and yeah, yeah, i know that now michael is gonna respond > how he gets _his_ for $7 each, as the regular price, but hey, > then i'll be as well-informed as the bargain-hunter himself.) > > -bowerbird > From hart at pglaf.org Mon Jan 29 20:50:21 2007 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:50:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> Message-ID: I disagree. . .put in a HUGE .zip file, let the onboard zip program handle it, and put in some cute protections again erasure. . .hee hee!!! On Sat, 27 Jan 2007, Robert Marquardt wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:13:20 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >> >> I certainly wouldn't mind including both illustrated and text editions. > > I currently download the SF books. I will report tomorrow how big that is. > Keep in mind that you cannot fill the stick completely or the user will have to delete books too soon. > No mor than 50 percent would be my guess and stored in a subdirectory so it does not clutter the root directory. > -- > Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > From hart at pglaf.org Mon Jan 29 21:05:17 2007 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:05:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [gutvol-d] Language Stats In-Reply-To: <9c6138c50701281347v5eb239ddq190fb4e81e0c9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> <45BD120F.4050105@perathoner.de> <9c6138c50701281347v5eb239ddq190fb4e81e0c9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Here is a listing from December 1, not sure why I don'tve a later one. Afrikaans(3) Aleut(1) Bulgarian(6) Catalan(12) Chinese(67) Czech(2) Danish(18) Dutch(242) Esperanto(16) Finnish(338) French(943) Frisian(1) Friulan(4) Gascon(1) German(386) Greek(5) Hebrew(2) Hungarian(6) Icelandic(6) Ilocano(1) Iloko(2) Interlingua(1) Irish(1) Italian(97) Japanese(2) Kamilaroi(1) Khasi(1) Korean(1) Latin(33) Lithuanian(1) Middle English(1) Nahuatl(2) Neapolitan(1) North(1) Norwegian(8) Polish(5) Portuguese(65) Quiche(1) Romanian(1) Russian(4) Sanskrit(1) Serbian(4) Slovak(1) Spanish(125) Swedish(34) Tagalog(49) Venetian(1) Welsh(8) Yiddish(1) Total number of languages (including English and DNA): 51 From klofstrom at gmail.com Mon Jan 29 21:27:49 2007 From: klofstrom at gmail.com (Karen Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:27:49 -1000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Language Stats In-Reply-To: References: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> <45BD120F.4050105@perathoner.de> <9c6138c50701281347v5eb239ddq190fb4e81e0c9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e8e65080701292127l5d13ffd8r8e74bf832cd4cb70@mail.gmail.com> We have one Hawaiian language text, The Romance of La'ieikawai. From robert_marquardt at gmx.de Mon Jan 29 23:32:47 2007 From: robert_marquardt at gmx.de (Robert Marquardt) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:32:47 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] google's books on the iphone In-Reply-To: References: <20070126072428.20060@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20070130073247.155800@gmx.net> > I disagree. . .put in a HUGE .zip file, let the onboard zip program handle it, > and put in some cute protections again erasure. . .hee hee!!! Not the best idea. Not all OSes mount Zips as directories and for Windows you can switch it off. The SF books in all versions (HTML, Plucker and all text encodings) needs more than 100 MB. This is about the amount of data i would want to store on a 1 GB thumbstick. Definitely it should not be more data than can be burned to a CD. I currently work on completing the download and will then create a navigation HTML page. Maybe i will also create an image to print on CDs. Something like "The Project Gutenberg Science Fiction Bookshelf" with the images already on the bookshelf page. This can be in turn added to the files so anyone can create nice looking CDs. -- Robert Marquardt (Team JEDI) http://delphi-jedi.org Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From ricardofdiogo at gmail.com Tue Jan 30 02:31:33 2007 From: ricardofdiogo at gmail.com (Ricardo F Diogo) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:31:33 +0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Language Stats In-Reply-To: <1e8e65080701292127l5d13ffd8r8e74bf832cd4cb70@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c6138c50701280524r3fe7d1d4kce9e071eaa924889@mail.gmail.com> <45BD120F.4050105@perathoner.de> <9c6138c50701281347v5eb239ddq190fb4e81e0c9d@mail.gmail.com> <1e8e65080701292127l5d13ffd8r8e74bf832cd4cb70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c6138c50701300231t5429d680ga7fab5cd81441d5f@mail.gmail.com> I have the top ten languages only for Jan. 1 English - 17477 French - 969 German - 413 Finish - 351 Dutch- 247 Spanish - 142 Italian - 103 Portuguese - 70 Chinese - 69 Tagalog - 52