From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Jun 4 14:11:53 2009 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 18:11:53 EDT Subject: [gutvol-d] filenames of graphics in the plain-text versions Message-ID: since the topic has come up on the "posted" list, i'd like to reiterate my request that the names of graphics be included in the plain-text versions... that way, the various viewer-programs that use the plain-text version of the files will be able to incorporate the graphics into their renderings... -bowerbird ************** We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bowerbird at aol.com Thu Jun 11 08:11:56 2009 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:11:56 EDT Subject: [gutvol-d] one thick book Message-ID: "you mean they actually printed the whole thing out?" > http://www.manystuff.org/?p=3597 -bowerbird ************** Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gbnewby at pglaf.org Thu Jun 11 15:14:31 2009 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:14:31 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Fwd: New ePub creation tool Message-ID: <20090611231431.GA25639@mail.pglaf.org> Does anyone have experience to share with ePub conversion tools? TIA....Greg ----- Forwarded message from support at AtlantisWordProcessor.com ----- From: support at AtlantisWordProcessor.com To: help at pglaf.org Subject: New ePub creation tool Dear Sir, I thought that your site visitors might be interested to know that ePub books can be composed in Atlantis Word Processor: http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en/help/index.php?page=html/ebook.htm You might wish to mention Atlantis Word Processor among the EPUB conversion tools on the following page of your site: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Help_on_Bibliographic_Record_Page#EPUB Thanks for your time. Best regards, Taras Push The Atlantis Word Processor Team http://www.AtlantisWordProcessor.com ----- End forwarded message ----- From schultzk at uni-trier.de Thu Jun 11 22:14:30 2009 From: schultzk at uni-trier.de (Keith J. Schultz) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:14:30 +0200 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: one thick book (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DB2B386-0783-4DD4-ACD8-8A90DBB8CB39@uni-trier.de> Hi All, I have not foolowed this thread, but if look at the picture(graphic) you wil notice that it is faked!! (curvatures, lighting and shades are not natural). Keith. Am 11.06.2009 um 18:11 schrieb Bowerbird at aol.com: > "you mean they actually printed the whole thing out?" > > http://www.manystuff.org/?p=3597 > > -bowerbird > > > > ************** > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > ) _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimad at msn.com Fri Jun 12 10:21:38 2009 From: jimad at msn.com (James Adcock) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:21:38 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Kindle DX + Google Books In-Reply-To: References: <4A0B2621.2070904@telkomsa.net> <4A0C4F62.5050803@novomail.net> Message-ID: Just got my Kindle DX so I am giving first impressions of it in PDF mode used in conjunction with Google Books: 1) This combination is very useful. 2) Page turns are very slow -- as in 10 seconds to render a page turn. 3) The result has a slightly blurry "photocopy" appearance. 4) There is some charm in seeing an old book in its original formatting. 5) I'd rather read the same book in PG mobi format if it existed. 6) Personally, I really like the larger format of the DX and the heft of it -- its more like reading a high-quality hard-cover book, whereas the smallish Kindle 2 would be like reading the Norton's paperback edition. Personally, I cannot imagine reading a book in a tiny cellphone type format -- but you'all have heard those words from me before! 7) The DX works very well for PDF technical documents, and I think it may very well find a following among colleges and those (like myself) who read lots of technical documents. Obviously technical documents do not have the "slightly blurry" aspect of Google books since that is just an artifact of the Google book scanning process. Also page turns on technical documents only take about a half a second. 8) I would think Amazon will now start selling some books in PDF format or other fixed-format because some publishers, of cookbooks say, would rather just do that rather than having to reformat a book to support MOBI unfixed-format. In summary, I think this combination is a potent competitor to PG but not a knockout, and I would think that the price is the big stumbling block, NOT the size. From jimad at msn.com Fri Jun 12 10:41:19 2009 From: jimad at msn.com (James Adcock) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:41:19 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX + Google Books In-Reply-To: References: <4A0B2621.2070904@telkomsa.net> <4A0C4F62.5050803@novomail.net> Message-ID: PS: The Web Browser in the DX is also more useful with the PG website, and with the new support for MOBI files, so that's a good thing! From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Jun 12 12:33:23 2009 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:33:23 EDT Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX + Google Books Message-ID: jim, thanks for the report... -bowerbird ************** Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hart at pglaf.org Fri Jun 12 16:24:23 2009 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael S. Hart) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:24:23 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <4A0B2621.2070904@telkomsa.net> <4A0C4F62.5050803@novomail.net> Message-ID: A the last dinner I had, at the very nice Chicago restaurant called The Bourgeois Pig, on Fullerton, everyone in the room I was in was on a computer, iPhone, etc., except me, as I am sure my friends are tired of seeing me show off my "new" new eBook reader, which is a four year old cellphone that does a half decent wifi and doubles as a more than half decent type of an eBook reader. What I did NOT realize at the time was the these people were ALL heavily into eBooks, and when our own conversation had a turn in that directtion it was totally amazing to see all of them get into the conversation, and apparently I have bought a "new" old iPhone, when the person upgrades. So far all of the people I have showed my new phone "reader" to have been surprised at how easy it is to read on it, even people in their 70's who need reading glasses to read books, or anything else. Hence, I now think even more that it is merely a matter of a personal taste issue when some people get so violently up on their soapboxes about how bad it is to read on small screens such as cell phones, even the larger iPhone and clones. My own reader phone is probably not much over 2" by 2" and I am will have to measure to be sure, but certainly not large, though more of it is screen than on most cells, but nothing, nothing at all, like the iPhone. I will continue to experiment, and I do understand margins-- how much they get torn up on the smaller screens, and I have an idea that just scrolling the text by, like ye olde "speed readers" we used in our grade school reading classes back in the 50's. . .just let it flow by and focus on phrases. This should not be a hard thing to program. . . . Meanwhile, my four year old phone cost about $50 and came in with 4 batteries, all working, several chargers, stands, and other assorted accessories. I will admit it's another learning curve without the manual, but it's already amazed any number of people who have asked, and we have surfed the Net with the built in browsers, added Mobi and a few other reader programs, and this olde phone is capable of holding as many books as the newly updated larger capacity of the latest Kindle, and serves fine with wifi and without a subscription to any phone service at all. More later, Thanks!!! Michael S. Hart Founder Project Gutenberg Inventor of ebooks Recommended Books: Dandelion Wine, by Ray Bradbury: For The Right Brain Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand: For The Left Brain [or both] Diamond Age, by Neal Stephenson: To Understand The Internet The Phantom Tollbooth, by Norton Juster: Lesson of Life. . . If you ever do not get a prompt response, please resend, then keep resending, I won't mind getting several copies per week. From jimad at msn.com Sat Jun 20 12:15:36 2009 From: jimad at msn.com (Jim Adcock) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:15:36 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <4A0B2621.2070904@telkomsa.net> <4A0C4F62.5050803@novomail.net> Message-ID: Below find a link to an Amazon Kindle user forum where users compare their experiences and happinesses reading Kindle books on iPhones using the Kindle iPhone app. Many people are very happy with this experience -- *personally* I can't imagine it [sort of like watching a movie thru a peep hole] -- but that doesn't mean there aren't other people who are happy with it! http://tinyurl.com/nqyspj But this is somewhat of a different issue than PDF + Kindle DX in that the Google Books approach of simply digitizing the page images of a book is a perhaps reasonable approach where the readership for that book is small compared to the effort required to take the Gutenberg approach of producing a clean digital text. If one is going to simply digitize the page images of a book then one needs a reader with a screen big enough to display that page image legibly -- unless one imagines a technology to slice and re-dice the page image in an intelligent manner so that snippets of the page image fits readably onto an iPhone. From hart at pglaf.org Sun Jun 21 02:39:49 2009 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael S. Hart) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:39:49 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <4A0B2621.2070904@telkomsa.net> <4A0C4F62.5050803@novomail.net> Message-ID: As I recall, there are a number of "pan and scan" readers, that allow you to enlarge .pdf files to any size you like, then move across the page as you like. However, I doubt if this creates a great read experience-- too much time at the controls, unless you can read with an automated movement program, such as is available in reader programs for many kinds of eBooks. I'm afraid my own reading style of jumping ahead to do the phrasing formulation while I am still "reading" a previous portion might not go too well with these, but experiments, though no long term ones, seem to create ok reading to me. Thanks!!! Michael On Sat, 20 Jun 2009, Jim Adcock wrote: > Below find a link to an Amazon Kindle user forum where users compare their > experiences and happinesses reading Kindle books on iPhones using the Kindle > iPhone app. Many people are very happy with this experience -- *personally* > I can't imagine it [sort of like watching a movie thru a peep hole] -- but > that doesn't mean there aren't other people who are happy with it! > > http://tinyurl.com/nqyspj > > But this is somewhat of a different issue than PDF + Kindle DX in that the > Google Books approach of simply digitizing the page images of a book is a > perhaps reasonable approach where the readership for that book is small > compared to the effort required to take the Gutenberg approach of producing > a clean digital text. If one is going to simply digitize the page images of > a book then one needs a reader with a screen big enough to display that page > image legibly -- unless one imagines a technology to slice and re-dice the > page image in an intelligent manner so that snippets of the page image fits > readably onto an iPhone. > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Jun 22 10:30:39 2009 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:30:39 EDT Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX, etc. Message-ID: jim said: > the Google Books approach of simply digitizing the page images of a book > is a perhaps reasonable approach where the readership for that book is > small compared to the effort required to take the Gutenberg approach of > producing a clean digital text.? If one is going to simply digitize the > page images of a book then one needs a reader with a screen big enough > to display that page image legibly -- unless one imagines a technology > to slice and re-dice the page image in an intelligent manner so that > snippets of the page image fits readably onto an iPhone. ok, where do i begin here? just pick a spot and jump in, i guess... i believe the google book "settlement" should be rejected. it gives far too much to google -- a virtual monopoly -- and would thus shut down experimentation prematurely... but what you have said here, jim, doesn't do google justice. you seem to think that google is just scanning the books, and displaying those scans to people. that's not the case. google is doing o.c.r., and is using the results of that o.c.r. further, they show indications they'll be cleaning that o.c.r. contrary to what you have implied here, it does _not_ take a great deal of time or effort to create "a clean digital text". i have shown here -- repeatedly -- that the vast majority of o.c.r. errors can be corrected with little or no human effort, using rigorously-applied computerized correction routines. and google knows how to create, test, and refine those routines. i have also shown here -- again, repeatedly -- that one attains high accuracy by comparing different digitizations to each other, and minimizes the human attention required in the process... google can use this, as it is scanning lots of books multiple times. so why does distributed proofreaders work so hard to do its books? because it's stupid, with its head in the sand, ignores what i prove, and doesn't mind wasting the energy and time of its volunteers... next, one doesn't have to "imagine" a technology that will slice and re-dice a page-image to fit it onto a certain display-size... bill janssen over at parc demonstrated such a system long ago. and if you look, google is currently using its own variant of that. finally, there are a lot of page-images that fit nicely on an iphone even without being sliced and diced. for instance, navigate here: > http://z-m-l.com/go/myant/myantp123.png this page-image displays quite nicely on an iphone, thank you. -bowerbird ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Jun 26 08:26:10 2009 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:26:10 EDT Subject: [gutvol-d] respite Message-ID: i backed off of this listserve for a little while to see if anyone else would step up to the plate and do some work to try and make it a lively place. but no... just a lot of tumbleweeds blowing through. so i'll be coming back soon and doing my fair share... -bowerbird ************** Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under $20. Take a Peek! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jared.buck at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 10:43:30 2009 From: jared.buck at gmail.com (Jared Buck) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:43:30 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for this year haven't been updated since January? Message-ID: I'm perfectly willing to help update these files if the person who usually does the gutindex file updating doesn't have time to do it. I get all the latest postings of new books and it would be an easy thing to do to look through the posted-list archives to grab all the listings, and insert them into the gutindex file. Jared -- Yogi Berra - "I never said most of the things I said." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sly at victoria.tc.ca Fri Jun 26 20:12:34 2009 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for this year haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One thing you might want to do in that case, is make a clear decsion about the character encoding for that file. The last time I asked, titles and author names were just being pasted into the gutindex files, regardless of what the encoding was, hoping that it would just all work out somehow. The result is a gutindex file which is mostly Latin-1, but with a few odd blips once in a while, for instance in Hungarian texts, where the wrong character can come out. --Andrew On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Jared Buck wrote: > I'm perfectly willing to help update these files if the person who usually > does the gutindex file updating doesn't have time to do it. I get all the > latest postings of new books and it would be an easy thing to do to look > through the posted-list archives to grab all the listings, and insert them > into the gutindex file. > > Jared > > From jared.buck at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 20:23:23 2009 From: jared.buck at gmail.com (Jared Buck) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:23:23 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for this year haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aye I can make a decision about the encoding. My guess is i could work with UTF-8 encoding for the file at first and see how that works, at first. I know there are a lot of entries that need to go into the gutindex-2009 file as well as the gutindex.all file. But I have a lot of time on my hands. I know the entries typically are divided by month, I can stick with the same format that's been used in prior gutindex-year files. Jared On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Andrew Sly wrote: > One thing you might want to do in that case, is make a clear > decsion about the character encoding for that file. > > The last time I asked, titles and author names were just being > pasted into the gutindex files, regardless of what the encoding > was, hoping that it would just all work out somehow. The result > is a gutindex file which is mostly Latin-1, but with a few odd > blips once in a while, for instance in Hungarian texts, where > the wrong character can come out. > > --Andrew > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Jared Buck wrote: > > > I'm perfectly willing to help update these files if the person who > usually > > does the gutindex file updating doesn't have time to do it. I get all > the > > latest postings of new books and it would be an easy thing to do to look > > through the posted-list archives to grab all the listings, and insert > them > > into the gutindex file. > > > > Jared > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > -- Bill Cosby - "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimad at msn.com Fri Jun 26 22:29:10 2009 From: jimad at msn.com (Jim Adcock) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:29:10 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: jimad said: "Google simply digitizing" Bowerbird said: you seem to think that google is just scanning the books, and displaying those scans to people. that's not the case. google is doing o.c.r., and is using the results of that o.c.r. Sorry, I know the broad strokes of what Google is doing. Rather I was pandering to my PG audience to soften the point I was trying to make [which is also somewhat the point you're trying to make] -- which is that --perhaps-- at some point in time in the near future using human beans to make txt files will no longer represent the best technological approach to making PD books available to the public -- and that with as examples the DX and Google "Page Image" PDFs maybe that day is getting pretty close. Google is still making the page image primary, and making the OCR -- however cleaned up or not -- secondary. IE google is using the OCR to make the book more-or-less searchable -- wonder why google would bother to do that? Some Google books OCR is very good, others OCR is very bad, and some Google books have only page images no OCR at all. Which begs the question, what IS the bottom-line goal of PG, and/or of DP? What IS IT we are really trying to accomplish here? Bowerbird said: one doesn't have to "imagine" a technology that will slice and re-dice a page-image to fit it onto a certain display-size...google is currently using its own variant of that. Sorry, where does google do a "slice and dice" -- can you provide a pointer? -- I know they do pan and scan. I also know some OCRs will do a mixed OCR text / word-image or char-image approach to digitizing a page based on how confident they are on a recognized word or not -- as in "paperless offices" From Bowerbird at aol.com Fri Jun 26 23:24:38 2009 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:24:38 EDT Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Kindle DX, etc. Message-ID: jim said: > at some point in time in the near future > using human beans to make txt files > will no longer represent the best technological approach > to making PD books available to the public considering the millions of public-domain books google already offers up, i'd say that that time has already come. most people only want to read the books, and perhaps extract small passages of text every once in a while, and google's production process facilitates those activities... it'd be nicer if all their text was completely cleaned, but one has to appreciate how far they have moved the bar... there's no longer a pressing need for volunteers to do this. of course, many of us enjoy it, so we'll continue doing it... > some Google books have only page images no OCR at all.? can you give me the u.r.l. of some of those? > where does google do a "slice and dice" -- > can you provide a pointer? in their mobile interface. for example: > http://books.google.com/m#Read?id=rYIhAAAAMAAJ&page_num=123 click on any bit of text to reveal the underlying scan... then click again to toggle back to the digital text copy. -bowerbird ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schultzk at uni-trier.de Sat Jun 27 04:26:43 2009 From: schultzk at uni-trier.de (Keith J. Schultz) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:26:43 +0200 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for this year haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> Uhhh !???? Either a file is in an encoding or not. Of course I can read and edit in any encoding I want, but that screws everything. So what is the file suppose to be. So the first step would decide what encoding, then save in this encoding, check to make sure everything is correct and then start updating. regards Keith. Am 27.06.2009 um 06:12 schrieb Andrew Sly: > One thing you might want to do in that case, is make a clear > decsion about the character encoding for that file. > > The last time I asked, titles and author names were just being > pasted into the gutindex files, regardless of what the encoding > was, hoping that it would just all work out somehow. The result > is a gutindex file which is mostly Latin-1, but with a few odd > blips once in a while, for instance in Hungarian texts, where > the wrong character can come out. > > --Andrew > From jared.buck at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 18:28:31 2009 From: jared.buck at gmail.com (Jared Buck) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:28:31 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for this year haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> Message-ID: I decided on using UTF-8 encoding. The text editor I used for the editing test, Notepad++, has an option to convert to UTF-9 encoding. Saving the file then with the encoding seems to preserve the special characters in the file when I view it in Notepad. However, any characters that were entered before but saved in Latin-1 will not show up or will show up as funny characters that don't display correct, so I would need to re-enter said characters and save again in UTF-8 in Notepad++. Will this be acceptable to everyone? Jared On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: > Uhhh !???? > > Either a file is in an encoding or not. Of course I can read and > edit > in any encoding I want, but that screws everything. So what is the > file suppose to be. > > So the first step would decide what encoding, then save in this > encoding, > check to make sure everything is correct and then start updating. > > > regards > Keith. > > > Am 27.06.2009 um 06:12 schrieb Andrew Sly: > > One thing you might want to do in that case, is make a clear >> decsion about the character encoding for that file. >> >> The last time I asked, titles and author names were just being >> pasted into the gutindex files, regardless of what the encoding >> was, hoping that it would just all work out somehow. The result >> is a gutindex file which is mostly Latin-1, but with a few odd >> blips once in a while, for instance in Hungarian texts, where >> the wrong character can come out. >> >> --Andrew >> >> > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > -- Alfred Hitchcock - "Television has brought back murder into the home - where it belongs." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajhaines at shaw.ca Sat Jun 27 19:05:35 2009 From: ajhaines at shaw.ca (Al Haines (shaw)) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:05:35 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> Message-ID: <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> Has anyone discussed the maintenance of the gutindex files with Greg Newby? If not, it would be advisable. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: Jared Buck To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:28 PM Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? I decided on using UTF-8 encoding. The text editor I used for the editing test, Notepad++, has an option to convert to UTF-9 encoding. Saving the file then with the encoding seems to preserve the special characters in the file when I view it in Notepad. However, any characters that were entered before but saved in Latin-1 will not show up or will show up as funny characters that don't display correct, so I would need to re-enter said characters and save again in UTF-8 in Notepad++. Will this be acceptable to everyone? Jared On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: Uhhh !???? Either a file is in an encoding or not. Of course I can read and edit in any encoding I want, but that screws everything. So what is the file suppose to be. So the first step would decide what encoding, then save in this encoding, check to make sure everything is correct and then start updating. regards Keith. Am 27.06.2009 um 06:12 schrieb Andrew Sly: One thing you might want to do in that case, is make a clear decsion about the character encoding for that file. The last time I asked, titles and author names were just being pasted into the gutindex files, regardless of what the encoding was, hoping that it would just all work out somehow. The result is a gutindex file which is mostly Latin-1, but with a few odd blips once in a while, for instance in Hungarian texts, where the wrong character can come out. --Andrew _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d -- Alfred Hitchcock - "Television has brought back murder into the home - where it belongs." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sly at victoria.tc.ca Sat Jun 27 20:48:27 2009 From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> Message-ID: Here is a little background, for anyone following the conversation, wondering what this is about. Years ago, the gutindex files used to be the _only_ way to locate a text at project gutenberg. If you care to search you can still find old "newbie instructions" written by Michael Hart, describing how to search the gutindex files, find a "base file name", enter command line ftp instructions to retrieve the file, etc. This purpose has been for the most part superceded with the use of online catalogs. (An old one on the promo.net site, and then the current incarnation in use.) However, the gutindex files have been maintained until relativly recently, and could still be useful in some situations. They are basically, plain text files, with each PG text identified on its own line. Over time, more various conventions and additional comments, cross-referencing, and so forth were getting added and making it very bulky. Having a catalog-type record for the definitive information source for each text began to make much more sence. (And thankfully made the distinction between the old "base-file-name" system, and the current numbered system invisible to the average user.) On our current website, Marcello has identified them as "offline catalogs" and they are linked to from: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Offline_Catalogs Andrew On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Al Haines (shaw) wrote: > Has anyone discussed the maintenance of the gutindex files with Greg Newby? If not, it would be advisable. > > Al > From hart at pglaf.org Sat Jun 27 21:08:31 2009 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael S. Hart) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:08:31 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> Message-ID: We certainly wouldn't mind if anyone would like to take them over and keep tham up to date. . . . Michael On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Andrew Sly wrote: > > Here is a little background, for anyone following the > conversation, wondering what this is about. > > Years ago, the gutindex files used to be the _only_ way > to locate a text at project gutenberg. If you care to search > you can still find old "newbie instructions" written by Michael > Hart, describing how to search the gutindex files, > find a "base file name", enter command line ftp instructions > to retrieve the file, etc. > > This purpose has been for the most part superceded with the > use of online catalogs. (An old one on the promo.net site, > and then the current incarnation in use.) > > However, the gutindex files have been maintained > until relativly recently, and could still be useful > in some situations. > > They are basically, plain text files, with each PG > text identified on its own line. Over time, more > various conventions and additional comments, > cross-referencing, and so forth were getting > added and making it very bulky. > > Having a catalog-type record for the definitive > information source for each text began to make > much more sence. (And thankfully made the > distinction between the old "base-file-name" > system, and the current numbered system > invisible to the average user.) > > On our current website, Marcello has identified them > as "offline catalogs" and they are linked to from: > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Offline_Catalogs > > > Andrew > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Al Haines (shaw) wrote: > > > Has anyone discussed the maintenance of the gutindex files with Greg Newby? If not, it would be advisable. > > > > Al > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > From jared.buck at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 21:13:41 2009 From: jared.buck at gmail.com (Jared Buck) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:13:41 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> Message-ID: Which I wouldn't mind doing, being the official keeper of these files :) I have already stated that I find UTF-8 to be the best encoding to use and will save them in that format. I will have to go back and fix the special characters previously inserted via Latin-1 format so they display correctly. Then someone can upload the files (since I don't have FTP upload access to the PG servers) and I can keep them updated once per week like they used to be. Jared On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Michael S. Hart wrote: > > We certainly wouldn't mind if anyone would like to take them over > and keep tham up to date. . . . > > > Michael > > > > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Andrew Sly wrote: > > > > > Here is a little background, for anyone following the > > conversation, wondering what this is about. > > > > Years ago, the gutindex files used to be the _only_ way > > to locate a text at project gutenberg. If you care to search > > you can still find old "newbie instructions" written by Michael > > Hart, describing how to search the gutindex files, > > find a "base file name", enter command line ftp instructions > > to retrieve the file, etc. > > > > This purpose has been for the most part superceded with the > > use of online catalogs. (An old one on the promo.net site, > > and then the current incarnation in use.) > > > > However, the gutindex files have been maintained > > until relativly recently, and could still be useful > > in some situations. > > > > They are basically, plain text files, with each PG > > text identified on its own line. Over time, more > > various conventions and additional comments, > > cross-referencing, and so forth were getting > > added and making it very bulky. > > > > Having a catalog-type record for the definitive > > information source for each text began to make > > much more sence. (And thankfully made the > > distinction between the old "base-file-name" > > system, and the current numbered system > > invisible to the average user.) > > > > On our current website, Marcello has identified them > > as "offline catalogs" and they are linked to from: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Offline_Catalogs > > > > > > Andrew > > > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Al Haines (shaw) wrote: > > > > > Has anyone discussed the maintenance of the gutindex files with Greg > Newby? If not, it would be advisable. > > > > > > Al > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > -- Yogi Berra - "I never said most of the things I said." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hart at pglaf.org Sat Jun 27 21:37:27 2009 From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael S. Hart) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:37:27 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: [gutvol-d] Project Gutenberg Facebook page (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:57:18 -0400 From: Rachael Kauffung To: hart at pobox.com Subject: Project Gutenberg Facebook page Hello, I started a facebook group for PG some time ago, with the intention of informing my friends of the website. It has since grown to almost 850 members with me doing absolutely nothing with the group. I was wondering if someone at PG might want to adopt the page and run it. These members are purely a result of viral spread, so I think there is potential to extend this in a way very beneficial to PG. I have had a number of members tell me they would be interested in proofreading and helping with the project. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. Thanks! Rachael Kauffung From schultzk at uni-trier.de Sun Jun 28 00:12:53 2009 From: schultzk at uni-trier.de (Keith J. Schultz) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:12:53 +0200 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> Message-ID: Hi, Could someone with admin privelges give Jared access to the server, or at least to the directory(ies) to keep the files properly update. regards Keith. Am 28.06.2009 um 07:13 schrieb Jared Buck: > Which I wouldn't mind doing, being the official keeper of these > files :) I have already stated that I find UTF-8 to be the best > encoding to use and will save them in that format. I will have to > go back and fix the special characters previously inserted via > Latin-1 format so they display correctly. > > Then someone can upload the files (since I don't have FTP upload > access to the PG servers) and I can keep them updated once per week > like they used to be. > > Jared > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Michael S. Hart > wrote: > > We certainly wouldn't mind if anyone would like to take them over > and keep tham up to date. . . . > > > Michael > > > > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Andrew Sly wrote: > > > > > Here is a little background, for anyone following the > > conversation, wondering what this is about. > > > > Years ago, the gutindex files used to be the _only_ way > > to locate a text at project gutenberg. If you care to search > > you can still find old "newbie instructions" written by Michael > > Hart, describing how to search the gutindex files, > > find a "base file name", enter command line ftp instructions > > to retrieve the file, etc. > > > > This purpose has been for the most part superceded with the > > use of online catalogs. (An old one on the promo.net site, > > and then the current incarnation in use.) > > > > However, the gutindex files have been maintained > > until relativly recently, and could still be useful > > in some situations. > > > > They are basically, plain text files, with each PG > > text identified on its own line. Over time, more > > various conventions and additional comments, > > cross-referencing, and so forth were getting > > added and making it very bulky. > > > > Having a catalog-type record for the definitive > > information source for each text began to make > > much more sence. (And thankfully made the > > distinction between the old "base-file-name" > > system, and the current numbered system > > invisible to the average user.) > > > > On our current website, Marcello has identified them > > as "offline catalogs" and they are linked to from: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Offline_Catalogs > > > > > > Andrew > > > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Al Haines (shaw) wrote: > > > > > Has anyone discussed the maintenance of the gutindex files with > Greg Newby? If not, it would be advisable. > > > > > > Al > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > > > > -- > > Yogi Berra - "I never said most of the things I said." > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gbnewby at pglaf.org Mon Jun 29 11:58:20 2009 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> Message-ID: <20090629185820.GA1456@mail.pglaf.org> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:13:41PM -0700, Jared Buck wrote: > Which I wouldn't mind doing, being the official keeper of these files :) I > have already stated that I find UTF-8 to be the best encoding to use and > will save them in that format. I will have to go back and fix the special > characters previously inserted via Latin-1 format so they display correctly. > > > Then someone can upload the files (since I don't have FTP upload access to > the PG servers) and I can keep them updated once per week like they used to > be. > > Jared Hi, Jared. As you saw, these files haven't been updated in 2009. Any reasonable format is good for us...it doesn't need to be exactly the same as George used to do them. My main strong desire is to include changes -- we often have catalog changes in the first few days after posting, and we also do periodic updates to older items. These can be tough to automate. Depending on how regularly you want to do this, I could set up a location for you to upload via FTP or whatever. In the meantime, I suggest you could just email me updated files, and I can get them posted. THANKS for taking this on. It is much harder than it seems at first glance. But feel encouraged to try things in different ways...not necessarily backward-compatible. -- Greg > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Michael S. Hart wrote: > > > > > We certainly wouldn't mind if anyone would like to take them over > > and keep tham up to date. . . . > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Andrew Sly wrote: > > > > > > > > Here is a little background, for anyone following the > > > conversation, wondering what this is about. > > > > > > Years ago, the gutindex files used to be the _only_ way > > > to locate a text at project gutenberg. If you care to search > > > you can still find old "newbie instructions" written by Michael > > > Hart, describing how to search the gutindex files, > > > find a "base file name", enter command line ftp instructions > > > to retrieve the file, etc. > > > > > > This purpose has been for the most part superceded with the > > > use of online catalogs. (An old one on the promo.net site, > > > and then the current incarnation in use.) > > > > > > However, the gutindex files have been maintained > > > until relativly recently, and could still be useful > > > in some situations. > > > > > > They are basically, plain text files, with each PG > > > text identified on its own line. Over time, more > > > various conventions and additional comments, > > > cross-referencing, and so forth were getting > > > added and making it very bulky. > > > > > > Having a catalog-type record for the definitive > > > information source for each text began to make > > > much more sence. (And thankfully made the > > > distinction between the old "base-file-name" > > > system, and the current numbered system > > > invisible to the average user.) > > > > > > On our current website, Marcello has identified them > > > as "offline catalogs" and they are linked to from: > > > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Offline_Catalogs > > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Al Haines (shaw) wrote: > > > > > > > Has anyone discussed the maintenance of the gutindex files with Greg > > Newby? If not, it would be advisable. > > > > > > > > Al > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > gutvol-d mailing list > > > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > > > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d > > > > > > -- > > Yogi Berra - > "I never said most of the things I said." > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d at lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d From Bowerbird at aol.com Mon Jun 29 13:59:41 2009 From: Bowerbird at aol.com (Bowerbird at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:59:41 EDT Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for thisyear haven't been updated since January? Message-ID: there's something here about how a service can be discontinued without any public discussion or decision or even _notification_... but i'm not too inclined to figure out what it all "means", since nobody'd be interested in the outcome of that analysis anyway. the rough image i'm getting, though, is a bunch of volunteers who spin themselves off to a place where they are very busy making something that nobody uses any more, because the volunteers lost touch with the feedback loop from the public. -bowerbird ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phil at thalasson.com Tue Jun 30 13:12:43 2009 From: phil at thalasson.com (Philip Baker) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:12:43 +0100 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for this year haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> Message-ID: <5E822D6C-65B2-11DE-BE50-000D93B743B8@thalasson.com> On 28 Jun 2009, at 06:13, Jared Buck wrote: > Which I wouldn't mind doing, being the official keeper of these files > :)? I have already stated that I find UTF-8 to be the best encoding to > use and will save them in that format.? I will have to go back and fix > the special characters previously inserted via Latin-1 format so they > display correctly. > > Then someone can upload the files (since I don't have FTP upload > access to the PG servers) and I can keep them updated once per week > like they used to be. > > Jared > I have just uploaded two files to: http://textual.net/glist.txt http://textual.net/gbiglist.txt The first is an attempt to create a gutindex file for 2009. The second should have all the emails of posted for 2009. Both are in reverse order by reference number - largest first. The first file will need to be edited by reference to the 2nd. There are some gaps - the most recent emails, and a big hole - 27825 to 28013 where I do not have the posted emails. Where is the archive? GUTINDEX.ALL goes up to 27930. I have not dealt with the encoding issue. Philip Baker From grythumn at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:05:57 2009 From: grythumn at gmail.com (Robert Cicconetti) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:05:57 -0400 Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Has anyone noticed that the gutindex files for this year haven't been updated since January? In-Reply-To: <5E822D6C-65B2-11DE-BE50-000D93B743B8@thalasson.com> References: <2A81022B-1955-4BB2-A3AE-E1E3062A900B@uni-trier.de> <30447D202735492EBF4302C4D4F96955@alp2400> <5E822D6C-65B2-11DE-BE50-000D93B743B8@thalasson.com> Message-ID: <15cfa2a50906301405r449a85amf884edb102d77ad0@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Philip Baker wrote: > There are some gaps - the most recent emails, and a big hole - 27825 to > 28013 where I do not have the posted emails. Where is the archive? > GUTINDEX.ALL goes up to 27930. > The archive is at http://lists.pglaf.org/pipermail/posted/ However, there is a gap due to technical problems earlier this year. I have the posted emails from that period and can send them to you, if you want. /me rummages through mail folders. I have the posted emails for #28566 - 19744. Mid-April of this year through early november of '06. Someone else probably has a more complete archive. R C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pterandon at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 16:52:59 2009 From: pterandon at gmail.com (Greg M. Johnson) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:52:59 -0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Guidelines for putting "PG" on own compilations Message-ID: Hello. I am making my own DVD project. I downloaded one of the custom-complied DVD's off of the Alaska server. I added another 50 titles and deleted a couple hundred. The main customization is that I've put together my own INDEX. I've grouped the works into about twenty genres of my own choosing and made it stylistically a bit more like your SciFi CD than the typical Alaska-server custom DVD. I want to give it away for free to everyone I meet and encourage them to do the same. But how do I identify it? The question of tact and/or legality is how should I identify the collection. Of course I would not modify any of the individual HTML files provided by PG for each book. I'm imagining if I were not to give PG enough credit for the compilation, I'll break one rule. It seems fair to give PG some kind of credit in my index for having created the book files themselves. But isn't there a Tom Robbins novel where someone gets into trouble by indexing? I'm imagining if I were not to take enough responsibility for the compilation, I could get folks mad at PG. For example, I chose to put a book on Mormonism into a category of "RELIGION-- OTHER" instead of "RELIGION-- CHRISTIAN." Somehow with my search terms I ended up with a book on Eugenics, which I find quite evil, but I'm wondering if I would ever be able to find and delete every possible controversial title from my selection. I was also considering putting the HTML code for your Paypal link on the index, is that good or bad? And to sum it up, ultimately, if I make my own compilation DVD, would PG want it for distribution? -- Greg M. Johnson http://pterandon.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pterandon at gmail.com Sun Jun 28 03:49:39 2009 From: pterandon at gmail.com (Greg M. Johnson) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:49:39 -0000 Subject: [gutvol-d] Guidelines for putting "PG" on own compilations Message-ID: Hi. I think there was a Tim Robbins novel where someone got into all kinds of trouble by indexing. That's what I've done: I made my own compilation DVD. I stuck to html files and have the material categorized by genre. I've got grown-up adventure (Verne/ Conrad), kid adventure (Appleton/ Hope), books for small children (Garis), education primers, how-to manuals, mystery, drama, general literature, natural science, physical science, religion: Christian, religion: Other & philosophy, 3 kinds of history, and magazines. about 3000 titles. I started with a custom DVD right off the Alaska server but completely revamped the index and added a hundred or so more ones. I'm considering giving physical copies of these out to everyone I've ever met and encouraging them to do the same. I of couse have not modified any of the html files provided by PG. Q: What are the guidelines for putting "PG" on the index and cover page? I can imagine scenarios where I rudely don't give you enough credit, or rudely get you blamed for my taste & choices in the idex. (I've split religion into "Christian" and "Other & Philosophy", as one example.) -- Greg M. Johnson http://pterandon.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: